ACF Hoodlums and Hooilgans

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ACF Hoodlums and Hooilgans

Postby Palomino on Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:18 pm

It's a black eye on the ACF to have a shameful few of its members publicly harassing, both ethnically and sexually a lady checker player. I had the idea that one of the purposes of the ACF was to encourage and support ladies playing our game. I guess we have a few that haven't gotten the message!

I believe to a degree some of the remarks made at Irma’s expense can be credited to youthful indiscretions and some day these young players will see the error of their ways, but there is no excuse for fully grown men to have treated Irma with such disrespect!

I believe the ACF needs a moral code of conduct and that all members be required to adhere to it!

I was always taught that women are to be honored and that I should show respect towards them, are there any gentlemen among us? I’d like to hear what some of you other men have to says about this.

Regards, “Pal” Bucker

P.S.

This sort of treatment towards our lady players is nothing new, I witnessed it at MSN in the Kings Room and I believe more of our female players than not have been subject to much of the same treatment as Irma is receiving now.
Last edited by Palomino on Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ACF Hoolums and Hooilgans

Postby Jay Bailey on Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:32 pm

ACF must choose, youth or women? Let me pose you this question Pal, do we really need more bush league players? That's all any women ever amounted to. Now show me a real female grandmaster, then I will say women have a place in checkers. Sorry, I don't count "WGM" as a title. Infact, I think the strongest level a woman ever attained in checkers is high major player, at best. Now not to stir the pot, I do respect women, my mom, my sister, etc...but what I saw from Irma is nothing more than a frivolous smear campaign.

It was delusional, psychotic and quite frankly idiotic. It's easy to spin something off and take it out of context. Youth are the future of checkers, not middle aged women. Secondly, these past days I have not seen any youth show any disrespect to women. Someone may be off their meds if you ask me.
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Re: ACF Hoolums and Hooilgans

Postby Nathan Gogo on Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:44 pm

we should not have to separate women from men. but just as an observation, the current american women masters barely place in the top half of minors at nats. also pal, i have not seen any youth male checker player harass a female. they have shown but the utmost respect
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Re: ACF Hoolums and Hooilgans

Postby Alan Millhone on Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:00 am

Hello Everyone:

When I first ran for ACF President one of my campaign slogans was " LEAVE NO ONE BEHIND ".

That includes all players ,regardless of playing ability. It takes all of us to make the ACF and the game of Checkers grow.

In Illinois before our last election I asked Kim Willis to run for ACF Secretary and she agreed. I had her come to the front of the players assembled in the Marion Mall and told everyone that I had asked Kim to run for Secretary and I told everyone I supported her. Kim was elected and now has become the first Lady elected to serve on the ACF Executive Committee.

We need more youth and more women players in Checkers and it has nothing to do with playing ability, but a love for the game . Last Nationals in Vegas I had my Daughter and her two young sons along to enter the youth tournament and then stay for the Nationals. They had a wonderful time.

The ACF cannot survive as an elitist group of top players only. I do not look at Irma Sierra as a woman from Mexico, but as a lady who loves to play Checkers.

Sincerely:
Alan Millhone, President
American Checker Federation
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Re: ACF Hoolums and Hooilgans

Postby Greg Murray on Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:18 am

My opinion is this:

Who cares if checkers has a future, unless people can act decently towards one another? Is checkers more important than life? Is skill at the game more important than good sportsmanship & cordiality? No it isn't.

The future of checkers does not come down to "youth" versus "women". The future of checkers is youth AND women who learn to play well with honor and integrity.

Those boys who harassed Irma...I don't care how good they are...they are not the future of checkers. It is easy to gang up on someone online and from a distance. I submit they are not men at all.

I agree there ought to be a code of conduct with suspensions and/or fines for those who cross the line of decency.

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Re: ACF Hoolums and Hooilgans

Postby BillyBoy on Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:24 am

Greg, You made one post and your very new on here which means this must be one of Irma's kurnik friends. You dont know the whole story so just stay clear of it and let this eventually die. Im so sick of all the bs constantly going on. People are so afraid to even talk cause something could be taken out of txt and get sent off to Alan or Richard or posted on this forum. So people type in broken sentences its getting retarded. So thanks for your byus opin in the matter we appreciate it. Tell Irma she dont need anymore recruits its getting old. Nobody will talk about landscaping mention any foreign name or even talk about there own country cause that seems to upset someone. So with that solved lets move on shall we. Billy
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Re: ACF Hoolums and Hooilgans

Postby Greg Murray on Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:53 am

Billy,
I don't need to know the whole story to see that it culminated in unacceptable behavior on the part of some young male ACF members. Being "new" doesn't disqualify me from recognizing that. Perhaps it makes it all the clearer to me. As I said, there ought to be repercussions, and in a truly professional organization there would be.

Bravo to Irma for being proud of her heritage and strong enough to defend it against the callous ill-considered remarks of thick-skulled, insensitive, provincial (look the word up), white male Americans. You don't have to like Irma. But you do have to watch what you say....we all do and that's as it should be.

This isn't a good-ole-boys club, Billy. It is all-inclusive, as all humanity....male & female, white, black, hispanic, Christian, Muslim, Jew, atheist, you name it....has the capacity to enjoy and appreciate, and to excel at, the great game of checkers.
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Re: ACF Hoolums and Hooilgans

Postby Bob Murr on Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:38 am

I am disappointed and saddened by what is going on. It doesn't take a mental giant to see that the intention of the comments was obviously to tease and harass Irma. It seems that anyone who is, or is perceived to be a friend of, Don is fair game. Well, I do consider myself to be a friend of both Irma and Don so I guess that this old man is next.
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Re: ACF Hoolums and Hooilgans

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:01 am

Bob, you might be surprised, but In in Court I am of course on Jolt / Ryan / Billi side. They said that there were no racist or harass statements in their chat postings. I trust them.

It was a bit junk trash joke talk in my opinion - nothing more. Normal Internet language which I have a chance to read since 1997. It is hard to meet a high educated language and philosophical speech :lol: in these rooms.

And I agree with Jolt - checkers are dying if we are still continue to talk about this and there is nothing else we can discuss :roll:

Sincerely,

Alex
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Re: ACF Hoolums and Hooilgans

Postby bugs on Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:09 pm

..............
Last edited by bugs on Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ACF Hoolums and Hooilgans

Postby Alan Millhone on Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:30 pm

Hello Everyone:

Please read my latest posting under General Discussion.

Sincerely:
Alan Millhone, President
American Checker Federation
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Re: ACF Hoolums and Hooilgans

Postby Lindus Edwards on Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:43 pm

I was shocked and appalled to read that Irma had been abused at Kurnik. I hope that those responsible will have their ISP numbers traced in order they can be identified and shamed accordingly. It is nonsense to say "they are only kids." They are old enough to know better and should not have abused this lovely lady of checkers. Irma deserves our support in matters such as this.
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Re: ACF Hoolums and Hooilgans

Postby Ryan Pronk on Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:02 pm

Alan, I apologize in advance. This post is intended for Greg Murray. I believe I deserve a right to respond to his accusations and name calling.

Hi Mr. Murray,

Thank you for taking precious moments out of your busy day to contribute to this thread.

I decided to respond to your post because you have judged my character in such a way I deem appalling and inappropriate. Good sir, as much as you think you know about me, the fact remains you know absolutely nothing about me. In fact, anyone who has personally met me face to face knows I am in no way a racist. The mere idea is actually laughable.

I will shed some light into my character, just for you, Mr. Murray. I am a strong advocate and proponent of equal rights and equal votes. From your posts, I am willing to wager you believe in Affirmative Action. Affirmative Action has been detrimental to our country and is just as racist as segregation was.

However, my biggest concern about this entire mess is that the most racist comment was in fact said by Irma. She referenced Alex Moiseyev in a previous post, and described him as a “POOR FRUSTRATED RUSSIAN…” Now, if the tables were turned and Moiseyev referred to Irma as a “POOR FRUSTRATED MEXICAN,” I’m sure the entire world would begin a race war with him.

To be quite honest, I look forward to the day when I am privileged to use the race card as a defense to any insult I receive. The white male is quickly becoming a minority population in America, so I plan on exploiting the race card, just as others have before me.

The question I pose to you, Mr. Murray, is how can Irma get away with such racist statements, and statements that are inferred as racist get blown completely out of proportion.

Anyway, I appreciate your condescending posts; you have truly made checkers a better game because of them. We all have our idiosyncrasies (look that word up), but racism is something I do not tolerate nor condone. By the way, I was not involved in the chat that involved people sexually harassing both Irma and Kim.

In the words of Don Deweber,
Have a great day and God Bless.

--Ryan
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For Lindus

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:18 pm

Lindus Edwards wrote:I was shocked and appalled to read that Irma had been abused at Kurnik. I hope that those responsible will have their ISP numbers traced in order they can be identified and shamed accordingly.

Lindus, you are the one who knows very well - I am saying always true and true only.

Just trust me again. Based on 100% proved information which I have, here are nicknames of Kurnik users who sexually harassed Irma:

nogood
esp_pressure

If you have intention to trace - you have to use these nicknames. These nicknames have nothing to do with Jolt, Ryan and Billy.

Here is another story. Jolt, Ryan and Billy were talking about landscaping and some other agriculture businesses in USA where today we have many immigrants from Mexico, both legal and illegal

It is well known fact, and you can read about this every day in newspapers. This is the result of damn globalization and many jobs in USA are outsourced today: informational technology to India, manufacturing jobs to China, agriculture - to Canada and Mexico. Almost each presidential candidate today has his/her own "immigration solution" and immigration became a very important, crucial issue in 2008 elections.

I don't see any indications of racism in all these conversations. These young fellows were accused for nothing.

In conclusion: Irma was frustrated and abused by one group of people, but accused and attacked other ... for nothing. This is my last post regards this matter.

Sincerely,

Alex
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Re: ACF Hoolums and Hooilgans

Postby tommyc on Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:40 pm

When i was young and going to the local flicks(picture house)for the latest Cowboy film..........and that was few yrs ago i can tell you,but it seems some old tradtions never fade away and die.............ITS STILL COWBOYS AND INDIANS.

WHEN WILL WE EVER LEARN?
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