TN GAYP State Ty

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Re: TN GAYP State Ty

Postby tommyc on Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:30 pm

Yes seems we will have to agree to disagree,but i still say our way is better and all should be equal as all are paying same entry fee!!
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Re: TN GAYP State Ty

Postby mday on Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:08 pm

Should be a higher entry fee for the higher division. $200 minimum.
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Re: TN GAYP State Ty

Postby Gene Lindsay on Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:43 pm

The best and most fair thing to do would be for everyone to play in just one division like every other sport and game on this planet(except for other variations of checkers and chess). We used to play double knockout here in the states and everyone played together, the first group that got knocked out then played a minor ty among themselves and then the second group that got knocked out played a major ty among themselves. The rest were the masters group and last place in the masters earned more than first place in the majors and so on down the line. To me that was the fairest way to play a tournament with different divisions. The reason it was changed was because there were to many players and it took to long. With no more players than we have now, we could all just play in one division and do away with the different divisions, then you would have true equality in checkers Tommy! There would be no masters, majors or minors we would all just be checker/draughts players.


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Re: TN GAYP State Ty

Postby matthewkooshad on Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:08 pm

I like the idea of all players playing in a single division too. Viewing results from checkers books, I never read of the divisions that might have existed then. Did divisions exist in the past?
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Re: TN GAYP State Ty

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:27 am

Michael Daily wrote:$200 minimum.


$500 or $1000 entry fee is better then $200.
I am playing checkers, not chess.
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Re: TN GAYP State Ty

Postby Ingo_Zachos on Fri Aug 18, 2006 7:05 am

matthewkooshad wrote: Did divisions exist in the past?


Yes, they existed.
Since the 1960, swiss system prevails with the divisions determined before the tournament begins.
Prior to that they used knock-out or double-knock out elimination systems.
Most of the times the early loosers then played a "minor" or "consolation" tournament to give them the chance of participating from the price fond(most US nationals prior to 1960).
Sometimes there were also two or more divisions both run in knock-out formats from the beginning (many state tournaments and most British Tournaments).
And in some cases there were preliminary rounds with the winners playing in the majors and the rest playing in the minors (for instance: US nationals 1920).

In chess, most tournaments only have more then one division, if the number of participants exceeds hundreds of players, as then 7 or 9 rounds would be too little to determine a clear and deserved winner.
In most cases (below 100 or 200 players) the procedure is as follows:

All players play in one division.
Before the tournament the players get ranked according to the latest rating, and split in to halves with the best of the first half playing against the best of the seconds half.
Then, with say 80 players, the top player plays number 41, number two plays number 42, number three plays number 43 etc, until number 40 plays number 80.
From round two on, they pair the players accorind to the swiss system.
to give weak players a chance to get prices, they introduce
rating prices, sometimes by cutting the fields in four or five groups accoring to their rating.
The highest group plays for the main prices, the next groups get rating prices, usually with a higher price fond for the main prices, but the same prices for all subsequent rating groups. Sometimes the rating barrier of the groups is announced before the tournament, eg. 2000-1801 is Group A, 1800-1601 Group B, below 1600 Group C and above 2000 can only get main prices.

Also there r special prizes like best Junior player (younger then 18), best Senior (above 60), best Woman, etc.

If someone achieved two prices he gets the highest price, eg. if a player rated 1850 wins group A, finishes in the lower main prices and is a junior, and the price money would be :
rating 200,
main price 150,
youth price 250,

He will get the youth price (highest price), and the other prices will go to the next placed in the corresponding category.

Some tournaments even offer a "better then expected prices", as by the rating of a player and his opponents one can calculate how many points he was going to expect. The player that outscores his "expectaion value" most gets a price.

You see: divisions r not necessary, but they seem to have a tradition in checkers, altough the low numbers ot players (two divisons with less then 20 players) sometimes indicates to me that several divisions might not be a very good idea.


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Last edited by Ingo_Zachos on Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TN GAYP State Ty

Postby Gene Lindsay on Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:50 am

Thanks Ingo, I wasn't sure how chess handles their tys. It sure seems the best way to run a ty to me. No wonder our game gets no respect with the silly ways we do things.

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Re: TN GAYP State Ty

Postby matthewkooshad on Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:22 pm

Thanks Ingo. Yes, I agree with Gene. It's sad, but seemingly true. If more energy goes into tournaments, I believe the game will express more energy to the community where the tournament is held. It might be a appearingly more difficult way to pair players in the tournament, but it might be worthwhile for directors to begin trying.
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