Looking for Oldbury game

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Looking for Oldbury game

Postby williamdocherty on Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:40 pm

Good evening all

In 1983 when I was in tough weekly training with John McGill he put a position on the board. Apparently it was a recent game played between Oldbury and Huggins if I'm not mistaken.
In the position it was Oldbury to play, with the capture of a man. However Oldbury did not take the piece and played a different move! The huff rule was still in the rules at the time...
Huggins however put the move played by Oldbury back and requested he carry out the capture of the man.
John in fact revealed to me that, had Huggins let Oldbury play his move, and remove/huff the piece that should have jumped then Oldbury would have had a concealed shot on!!!

I don't know if it was youth, or if the time since then has distorted my memory of the shot but I remember it as being nothing less than ingenious, as we supposed that Oldbury had tried to 'set up ' Huggins!!!

Has anyone a trace of this game+more anecdotes on this ??

It definitely should be something to be shared on the forum in my opinion!
Thanks for eventual feedback...
William
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Re: Looking for Oldbury game

Postby Richard Pask on Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:52 am

Dear William,

See Column 35 of DEO's Rotherham Advertiser series, published as 'Read all about it!' on Bob Newell's excellent Checker Maven site.

Briefly: 11-15 24-20; 8-11 28-24; 3-8 23-19; 9-14 26-23; 5-9 22-17; 1-5 17-13; 14-18 23-14; 9-18 21-17; 11-16 17-14?!? (forced to retract this: to huff would be a losing move) 20-11; 7-23 24-20; 15-19 25-21; 19-24 17-14; 10-17 21-14; 12-16 20-11; 8-15 27-20; 15-19? (23-26 easy) 29-25; 4-8 13-9! to a White win: F. Bucklow v DEO from the British Championship semi-final.

All the best Richard
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Re: Looking for Oldbury game

Postby williamdocherty on Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:45 pm

Hi Richard

Thanks for posting the game.
So I can say that time did distort my memory of this shot, but definitely a nice try by Derek!

I will be posting PM you something I've worked up, I feel you could find interesting,

BR

William
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Re: Looking for Oldbury game

Postby Richard Pask on Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:09 am

You may yet be correct about the Huggins' game William, as DEO had several 'huff traps', including one on the Cross which I can't locate at present.

I know you weren't, in any way, raising the huff as an issue but, for it's worth, here's how I feel about it.

For me, the huff was/is one of 4 or 5 things holding back the game's development; in terms of being taken seriously by the general public.

First, it suggests that overlooking jumps is commonplace in the game. (Okay, it is at the novice level!)

Secondly, for me at least, it seems very childish. Consider a similar rule in chess: 'If your opponent doesn't get out of check, you have the option of removing his king.'

Thirdly, it is frequently misconstrued: ignoring the fact that a player can/could always compel capture if he so wished. It is very hard to get this across to the general public; like keeping their finger on a piece and then moving it back!

Also, DEO's so-called 'huff traps' appear to be a contradiction in terms: if you deliberately don't take (as in the case of these traps), you can hardly be said to have 'overlooked' the jump! Forfeiture for this admission I say!

Finally, Willie Ryan, DEO and even Tom Wiswell often complained that abolishing the rule was too soft. For myself, I think the current system is fine - one warning for an improper move - but, if pushed, would rather have immediate forfeiture than have the huff.
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Re: Looking for Oldbury game

Postby williamdocherty on Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:11 pm

Hi Richard

Yes, I need to agree with you on all of your points below...and moving into a topic of the same elk, I've often heard of people complaining that their opponent didn't inform them that they hadn't pressed their clock!!!!
All very amateurish and there are more examples without a doubt.(boards with numbers etc. !!)
In any case an 'unlawful' move should be punished immediately by forfeit of the game.

But another question arising from this is : how can rules and laws (have been) be set or modified for professional players (hélas there are not many left!!) by , dare I say it, by amateur organisations? Without aiming arrows, as I definitely understand and agree that the volunteers who run our competitions have just as much, or even more merit as we who take our studies as seriously as a top athlete or professional jazz player, I would say that when an organization is made up of decision makers unable to apprehend the work needed to master the game then perhaps the bases of the progress are to be found here ? After all, profound knowledge of our game would surely help them in promoting it.
One anecdote is an organiser who came up to me one day and complimented me on "being a reasonable' player...! to which I just sighed internally and felt sad for the game and the organiser.
On the counter side , we don't find many top players or GM's (I included) on the ground, actively promoting in schools, etc. So the circle circles and goes round again as it has over the years...

Look forward to seeing some more huff swindles if you have them Richard!

Greeting William
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Re: Looking for Oldbury game

Postby chipschap on Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:28 pm

"In any case an 'unlawful' move should be punished immediately by forfeit of the game."

There is a less stringent but, I think, still appropriate rule enacted by the US Chess Federation for chess games (I'm a certified tournament director in that organization).

An unlawful move must be retracted and a lawful move made. However, the opponent of the player making the illegal move can have two minutes of extra time added to his/her clock.

In the case of repeated and willful illegal moves, the game can be declared forfeit at the option of the tournament director.
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Re: Looking for Oldbury game

Postby Richard Pask on Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:06 am

From Fred Passey's excellent, and much underrated, ABC of draughts;

11-15 23-18; 8-11 27-23; 4-8 23-19; 9-14 18-9; 5-14 22-17; 6-9 17-13; 11-16 31-27?!; Black huffs the man on 13 (Bad move!) then 16-23 27-4. White wins.

I recommend this thoroughly to all players: there is much of value in it, including an interesting commentary on the rules of the game.
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Re: Looking for Oldbury game

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:44 pm

Richard Pask wrote: the rules of the game.
This is different game. Even with just one rule change this somehow has influence on all stages and require different calculations.

So many beautiful games, but life is short :D
I am playing checkers, not chess.
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Re: Looking for Oldbury game

Postby Richard Pask on Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:24 am

Dear Alex,

Happy Christmas to yourself and all fellow players.

Just to make it clear: it is Mr Passey's book I am recommending! - I am, and always have been, totally opposed to the huff, which I believe has played a significant role in holding the game back from gaining serious acceptance among the general public.

Sincerely, Richard
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Re: Looking for Oldbury game

Postby Bill Salot on Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:25 pm

Speaking of "Looking for Oldbury", I would like to buy, beg, borrow or steal an original, or reprint, or scanned copy of, or link to, the Volume 1, Number 1, September-October, 1946, issue of Oldbury's "A Game of Draughts" magazine. If it is part of a full set that will not be broken, I'll take the full set. There were only seven issues.

Are there any sources out there?
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Re: Looking for Oldbury game

Postby jimloy on Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:45 pm

I think that Vashon Island Books (http://www.vashonbooks.com/) has the set (collectable) for $125.
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Re: Looking for Oldbury game

Postby jimloy on Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:55 pm

Which British Championship semi-final? I can't find 'Read all about it!' on Bob Newell's excellent Checker Maven site.

Also, didn't Oldbury once play a losing move, confident that his opponent would not be able to execute the win, in order to encourage his opponent to play the same losing move? Some American Grandmaster wrote that no one would do that intentionally.
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Re: Looking for Oldbury game

Postby jimloy on Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:29 pm

By the way, the huff (as well as unnoticed illegal moves) cause a variety of problems with computers.

I have a suggestion for recording illegal moves in .pdn notation. Record up to the illegal move, as usual, and then record a separate game after the illegal move, staring with the [FEN...] record of the position. Of course illegal moves may just be mis-recorded moves, and should be corrected. But every year or so, someone will move twice and get away with it, even among the experts.
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Re: Looking for Oldbury game

Postby tgf on Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:14 pm

Bill Salot wrote:Speaking of "Looking for Oldbury", I would like to buy, beg, borrow or steal an original, or reprint, or scanned copy of, or link to, the Volume 1, Number 1, September-October, 1946, issue of Oldbury's "A Game of Draughts" magazine. If it is part of a full set that will not be broken, I'll take the full set. There were only seven issues.

Are there any sources out there?

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/Book ... 1-_-title6
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Re: Looking for Oldbury game

Postby George Hay on Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:55 am

I did do business with Vashon Island Books, but it was through Amazon. I was pleased to purchase a used hardcover copy of Checkers Made Easy by Arthur Reisman. It was the paperback edition that a bookbinder evidently made into a hardcover. Nice!

--George Hay
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