Who is ACF Grandmaster ?

General Discussion about the game of Checkers.

Re: Who is ACF Grandmaster ?

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Sat May 23, 2015 5:44 pm

George Hay wrote:Were Melvin Pomeroy and Millard Hopper cut from the list?
Hmmm ... great question. They are not on RLF list of ACF GM's which I used as base. I need more research on this. It seems like the fact that they played GAYP World Title matches wasn't enough for RLF. In other hands - he didn't ignore GAYP and included Yates here.
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Re: Who is ACF Grandmaster ?

Postby liam stephens on Sat May 23, 2015 6:49 pm

On what basis are non American players included in the list ?

It is noted that W. R. Fraser, J. Francis, R. King, L. Kondlo, D. Oldbury and T. Canning are included.
But, why are players such as Pat McCarthy and William Edwards omitted ?
They were both world title challengers and played in several of the USA v UK and Ireland matches.

The whole exercise would be greatly improved by renaming it "World Grandmasters"
and including the current world champions M. Borghetti and S. Scarpetta.
And not forgetting, of course, the oldtimers - Anderson, Wyllie, Richard Jordan etc.

Also Richard Chamberlain and Alf Huggins should be added to the postal players list.
Last edited by liam stephens on Sat May 23, 2015 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who is ACF Grandmaster ?

Postby George Hay on Sat May 23, 2015 6:58 pm

Liam, those are good questions indeed for Mr. Alex!
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Re: Who is ACF Grandmaster ?

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Sat May 23, 2015 7:07 pm

liam stephens wrote:On what basis are non American players included in the list ?

It is noted that W. R. Fraser, J. Francis, R. King, L. Kondlo, D. Oldbury and T. Canning are included.
But, why are players such as Pat McCarthy and William Edwards omitted ?
Liam, all these foreigners played in ACF National and each of them did pretty well that's why they are on the list of ACF GM's. For instance Tommi Canning was 2 times winner of ACF National mail ladder and technically achieved ACF GM 2 norms. Same thing about Oldbury, Kondlo, Francis, King

All this topic is strictly about ACF titles only, not WCDF. From 2 GM norms at least 1 should come from ACF event only.

I totally 250% (!) agree that B. Edwards, P. McCarthy and some other great players must be recognize by WCDF retrospectively as GM's

I was elected as ACF Player Representative, not WCDF Player Representative! :D WCDF may have their own criteria's, norms, rating barriers etc.

I an promoting checkers and motivating players in USA. If Federations of every country do the same thing - WCDF will be stronger. What I am doing now - setting "National titles". All questions about WCDF titles shall be address to WCDF officers.

Kent, how about Barbados GM and Barbados Master ? :idea: You can be International Master, but National Grandmaster. Or opposite way.

AM
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Re: Who is ACF Grandmaster ?

Postby liam stephens on Sat May 23, 2015 7:26 pm

Limiting it to "ACF Grandmasters" is in my view a retrograde step.

And omitting Borghetti and Scarpetta is akin to scratching Napoleon off the title page of the Eroica. :)
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Re: Who is ACF Grandmaster ?

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Sat May 23, 2015 7:37 pm

Liam, so .. you are blaming current WCDF administration, correct ? But I believe WCDF has some titles. You can ask them for complete list. I am pretty sure, Sergio and Miki are WCDF grandmasters. But if they want to be ACF GM's - they have to play in our National.

I am promoting ACF and checkers in USA. I am not WCDF officer. American players will be better motivated when title system will be setup.
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Re: Who is ACF Grandmaster ?

Postby George Hay on Sat May 23, 2015 9:30 pm

Mr. Alex, concerning Melvin Pomeroy and Millard Hopper, GAYP world champions, Millard Hopper may have the stronger claim. This is due to the fact that the GAYP World Championship Matches, Melvin Pomeroy vs Alfred Jordan of 1913 and 1914, both won by Pomeroy, were not widely recognized. However, the current GAYP World Championships still trace back to Melvin Pomeroy! That the ACA recognized Millard Hopper as GAYP World Champion gave an implied recognition, if nothing else, that Melvin Pomeroy was GAYP World Champion. That the ACA recognized Millard Hopper as world champion comes from the book Checker Kings In Action by Tom Wiswell and Millard Hopper. On page 19 and 20 introducing Millard Hopper by George V. de Lery he states ",...Hopper specialized in the "go-as-you-please" game, and in a match of 10 games in this style of play met and defeated Alfred Jordan, Champion of Great Britain. Latter when Melvin Pomeroy died, Hopper claimed his rights to the title of Unrestricted Checker Champion; a claim that is recognized by The American Checker Association (now The American Checker Federation)." That Tom Wiswell was the challenger in the 1951 GAYP WCM is clearly stated on page 16 introducing Tom Wiswell by Louis Burt, "Wiswell, whose forte is match play, challenged Millard Hopper to a forty-game match for the world's unrestricted title in 1951." Many leading checkerist of the time supported the 1951 match. In the dedication page it reads, "THEY, together with the American Checker Federation contributed to the successful playing of the Match." On page 32, a kind of summary page, it has the score, Wiswell beats Hopper 7-2-27, and states "Endorsed by the American Checker Federation."
http://checkersusa.com/books/straight/W ... n_1952.pdf


I must point out that when M. Pomeroy beat A. Jordan in 1913 in Binghampton, NY, the Binghampton Chamber of Commerce recognized Pomeroy as "winning the World's Championship in checkers."
This was from the last page of the 1913 Match Book.
http://checkersusa.com/books/straight/P ... s_1913.pdf
The 1914 Match Book shows further support from the Binghampton Chamber of Commerce and also the Binghampton Checker Club.
http://checkersusa.com/books/straight/P ... oy1914.pdf

Richard Pask in 21st Century Checkers 11-15s: GAYP Suppliment identifies six Intermetiate GAYP Matches, although not identified as WCM's.
The "Intermediate" refers to dates, between Gould's Memorialbe Matches and Modern GAYP Matches. The six Intermediate GAYP Matches that Pask lists are:

1: A. Jordan v M. Pomeroy 1913 (1-2-47) 2: M. Pomeroy v A. Jordan 1914 (3-0-45)
3: M. Hopper v T. Wiswell 1951 (2-7-27) 4: T. Wiswell v M. Hopper 1953 (2-2-36)
5: T. Wiswell v W. Fraser 1956 (2-0-36) 6: T. Wiswell v W. Fraser 1959 (7-0-17)

IMHO the historical case is overwhelming in favor of Millard Hopper as Grandmaster, and at least adequate of Melvin Pomeroy as Grandmaster.

--George Hay
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Re: Who is ACF Grandmaster ?

Postby George Hay on Sat May 23, 2015 9:47 pm

This is the link to the Richard Pask page for 21st Century Checkers 11-15s and other e-books:

http://www.bobnewell.net/checkers/paskpdf.html
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Re: Who is ACF Grandmaster ?

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Sat May 23, 2015 11:01 pm

Updated list (M. Pomeroy and M. Hopper added)

01. Charles F. Barker
02. William R. Barker
03. Newell W. Banks
04. Richard Beckwith
05. Ed Bruch
06. Hugh Burton
07. Basil Case
08. Maurice Chamblee
09. Paul Davis
10. Jack Francis
11. Clarence Freeman
12. Harold Freyer
13. Eugene Frazier
14. William R. Fraser
15. Everett Fuller
16. Louis Ginsberg
17. Samuel Gonotsky
18. Kenneth Grover
19. Walter Hellman
20. Richard Hallett
21. August J. Heffner
22. Hugh Henderson
23. Millard Hopper
24. John F. Horr
25. Edwin F. Hunt
26. Alfred Jordan
27. Ronald King
28. Lubabalo Kondlo
29. Don Lafferty
30. Leo Levitt
31. Mike Lieber
32. Milton Loew
33. Asa Long
34. Elbert Lowder
35. Alex Moiseyev
36. James Morrison
37. Derek Oldbury
38. Melvin Pomeroy
39. James P. Reed
40. William F. Ryan
41. Nathan Rubin
42. Marion Tinsley
43. Tom Wiswell
44. Robert Yates

45. Mac Banks
46. Jerry Childer
47. Thomas Canning
48. Richard L. Fortman
49. Paul Thompson

Larry Keen and John Webster will be awarded by one grandmaster norm.
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