Who is ACF Grandmaster ?

General Discussion about the game of Checkers.

Who is ACF Grandmaster ?

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Tue May 12, 2015 5:33 pm

ACF started in 1905. What is your opinion - who deserved to be awarded by Grandmaster title ? This question has only historical value, and this list should have only names of people who is not with us today.

I am giving here several names which immediately come to my mind:

01. M. Tinsley
02. W. Hellman
03. A. Long
04. A. Jordan
05. T. Wiswell
06. W. Ryan
07. B. Case
08. E. Lowder
09. E. Bruch
10. S. Gonotsky
11. D. Oldbury
12. W. Fraizer
13. N. Banks
14. M. Lieber
15. M. Chamblee
16. E. Hunt
17. D. Lafferty
18. N. Rubin

Remember, "Grandmaster" - someone who had outstanding performance: being World champion, or played World Title Matches or being on top of Major events.
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Re: Who is ACF Grandmaster ?

Postby champion374 on Wed May 13, 2015 5:39 am

im lost alex.i know there was no WCDF ruleing back then on how you become a Grand Master but it was not won won the state open or international?

most of the guys you have named there have won Major tournaments. tinsley oldbury ,helman ,
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Re: Who is ACF Grandmaster ?

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Wed May 13, 2015 7:42 am

champion374 wrote:im lost alex.
Kent, we are going to introduce titles in ACF, award people retrospectively and start running titles in ACF. We never had this before. ACF master and grandmaster norms will be tough but reasonable.

In addition, we'll have EXPERT title.

All people I listed,at some time demonstrated exceptional performance and in their prime time were leaders among checkers players.

Grandmaster with Registration #1 will be Marion Tinsley.

For you it might be interesting that two Barbados players, R. King and J. Francis will be awarded by ACF GM title because they are ACF members in good standings and achieve 2 GM norms.

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Re: Who is ACF Grandmaster ?

Postby George Hay on Wed May 13, 2015 8:07 am

Mr. Alex, this is a very interesting subject, but I am not sure to what end you are going for. I am impressed with your list, you show a very good sense of history!
The OMOCH Timeline gives 1906 for the " FIRST AMERICAN CHECKER ASSOCIATION ORGANIZED BY F. BERG at PORTLAND, OR. L.L. GRAINGER PRESIDENT."
I do have a few suggestions. The ACA is the first forerunner of the ACF and held the first ACA National Tournament in 1907 won by C. Barker. M. Pomeroy was GAYP world champion beating A. Jordan in 1913 and 1914. H. Henderson won the next two ACA tournaments in 1912 and 1915. J. Horr was the ACA champion in 1920, and even beat A. Long in a 47 Ballot Two-Move Subscription Match in 1923. M. Hopper was recognized as the GAYP World Champion as T. Wiswell was the challenger in their iconic 1951 WCM. Of course, D. Oldbury is English and W. Fraser is Canadian. There is E. Frazier who won the 1966 ACF Nationals who is definitely Grandmaster material! I am sure there are other candidates, but this is a summary of my suggestions:

1. C Barker
2. M Pomeroy
3. H. Henderson
4. J. Horr
5. M. Hopper
6. E. Frazier
Last edited by George Hay on Wed May 13, 2015 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who is ACF Grandmaster ?

Postby champion374 on Wed May 13, 2015 8:22 am

ok Alex.

so will the Acf norms be any diffrent to the ones on Wcdf?

to my understanding when you win any open Tournament you become a Grandmaster and you have past the norm am i right?

2200 above International master . i cant rememeber the one for Canadate but you can help me out on that one.
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Re: Who is ACF Grandmaster ?

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Wed May 13, 2015 8:41 am

George Hay wrote:1. C Barker
2. M Pomeroy
3. H. Henderson
4. J. Horr
5. M. Hopper
6. E. Frazier


George, many thanks for your input ! I was pretty sure that my list is not full. I totally agree with you that all 6 names you added - must be part of retrospective process and these people must be awarded by ACF GM title.

Here is updated list. Keep in mind - this is grandmasters list, not masters.

01. M. Tinsley
02. W. Hellman
03. A. Long
04. A. Jordan
05. T. Wiswell
06. W. Ryan
07. B. Case
08. E. Lowder
09. E. Bruch
10. S. Gonotsky
11. D. Oldbury
12. W. Fraizer
13. N. Banks
14. M. Lieber
15. M. Chamblee
16. E. Hunt
17. D. Lafferty
18. N. Rubin
19. C Barker
20. M Pomeroy
21. H. Henderson
22. J. Horr
23. M. Hopper
24. E. Frazier

George Hay wrote:Mr. Alex, this is a very interesting subject, but I am not sure to what end you are going for.
Read my campaign list of issues "things to do" :D

One issue says: introduce titles and title id's in ACF. As part of deal, we have also accurately do it in the past in order to move forward and start running titles. It was never done before and our current system with Divisions, Ratings etc obviously can be improve. New system link together ratings and titles. All my proposals will be (indeed!) approve by ACF Exec Committee and more likely (if approve), ACF-BY-LAWS will be updated.

Today - 21st century :D
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Re: Who is ACF Grandmaster ?

Postby George Hay on Wed May 13, 2015 8:51 am

I had to edit to get D. Oldbury's name correct. :)

Mr. Alex, thanx for the update! I agree everyone on your updated list should be awarded the Grandmaster title, a very exclusive title!

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Re: Who is ACF Grandmaster ?

Postby champion374 on Wed May 13, 2015 8:57 am

how soon these titles will be awarded
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Re: Who is ACF Grandmaster ?

Postby George Hay on Wed May 13, 2015 9:10 am

champion374 wrote:how soon these titles will be awarded


Good question Kent, I hope soon. I hate the phrase "no brainer" especially when it comes to checkers, but this list is pretty solid!

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Re: Who is ACF Grandmaster ?

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Wed May 13, 2015 9:26 am

champion374 wrote:how soon these titles will be awarded
Hmmm ... maybe 2-3 months ? I hope no longer. We will need to get a pictures from people and print id's This also may take some time.

BTW. Here is list of living grandmasters, who will get id's (we are still working on master and expert lists)

01. A. Moiseyev
02. R. King
03. R. Hallett
04. L. Kondlo
05. J. Francis
06. J. Morrison
07. R. Beckwith
08. P. Davis ... inactive
09. L. Levitt ... inactive
10. H. Burton . inactive

We also may probably award with ACF GM titles post mail outstanding players such as RLF, J. Childer, M. Banks, T. Canning. Tommy was a winner of ACF National ladders twice.

It's never late to award people for their accomplishments and contribution to game.

If we don't have history - we don't have future! ... (don't remember who said this)

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Re: Who is ACF Grandmaster ?

Postby champion374 on Wed May 13, 2015 9:35 am

Qustion whats the diffrence with a WCDF Grand master and a acf one?

is this a Qustion there will be Grand Masters on the Wcdf that or not on the Acf?
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Re: Who is ACF Grandmaster ?

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Wed May 13, 2015 9:41 am

champion374 wrote:there will be Grand Masters on the Wcdf that or not on the Acf?
Easy! :D ACF titles have different criteria's for norm and mainly promote ACF events. We allow people to get some norms outside of our border, but at least 50% or more norms shall come from ACF events only.

Remember - I was elected as ACF Player Representative, not WCDF Player Representative :D
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Re: Who is ACF Grandmaster ?

Postby champion374 on Wed May 13, 2015 9:49 am

cool the Barbados open is coming up on the 21st to 28th of june where i would be playing in the Masters first time this year after wining the Majors last year.so i guess you guys will be following,

i will post the cross tables here. but some how i get trouble posting photos are up loading stuff.

this look like the most intresting year for checkers in a long time with the world cup and so on.
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Re: Who is ACF Grandmaster ?

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Wed May 13, 2015 10:18 am

Question to George and other historians ... I am not big expert to validate properly strength of players in the past. I am wondering if K. Grover must be added to list of ACF GM's ? I know that he played couple 11 man ballot World Title Matches. Does anyone have his record in ACF Nationals and best accomplishments ?

Should we also award Chinook with ACF GM title who won ACF National twice ??? (What we should have on id photo ?)

This project is not as simple as it looked originally.
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Re: Who is ACF Grandmaster ?

Postby George Hay on Wed May 13, 2015 11:00 am

Mr. Alex, K. Grover was 2nd only to A. Long in the 1939 ACA National Tournament. K. Grover beat N. Banks in the 11 Man WCM in 1969 to become 11 Man World Champion. While I am too much of a purist for 11 Man ballot, I have to recognize the strength of the competition. K. Grover would be a safe bet for making the Grandmaster list!

I don't think computers should be given titles. :)

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