2014 ACF National fiasco.

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2014 ACF National fiasco.

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:57 pm

Even after two weeks Michael Holmes (ACF Player Representative) has not given any reasons why he (or ACF) changed the schedule or evidence that he or someone else on ACF behalf consulted with anyone first (prior January 1). Michael declared here that opinion was asked but didn't provide any evidence and prove of this voting prior January 1 (when bid was accepted).

More alarmingly, neither he nor anyone else in the Exec has given a defense of the changes, which just reinforces "let them eat cake" attitude. This line was particularly alarming: "Provide a list of those who want something different and why, and we will review."

Michael is the Player Representative. It is his job to consult the players BEFORE he makes any decisions, and to respond to their concerns or questions in a professional and clear manner. But every time he is challenged on a decision or opinion, he acts like he is the victim and that we (the paying members) should be the ones to prove to him that there is potential opposition. We do not need to run ACF into the ground.

Michael wrote on January 3:

Michael Holmes wrote:Several players, including you Alex M., have given input about the longevity of the national. Your desires and wants were considered.

I appreciate your concern. It appears that you are assuming or insinuating that we have not asked players.
I don't insinuate anything but I want to see a prove of this statement. There are about 20-25 players in ACF who is qualify today to play in Master Division. I am wondering - how many of them were asked prior January 3 about changing format of event (5 days and 7 rounds).

Michael said "several". Does it mean 2,5,15 or 25 ? Without simple and exact answers there might different versions and interpretation of this number.

Michael tries to confirm here, that lawful questions of pay members to ACF officers are "insinuation". Nope, this is not insinuation. We want to know the true and we want to know facts. ACF is not a secret organization.

Respectfully,

Alex Moiseyev
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Re: 2014 ACF National fiasco.

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:15 pm

There are some more news on this. American Checkers federation Exec finally wake up and started preparing voting. Ballot contest is still subject to be determined.

In the meantime today I started my own voting among ACF Masters. I consider people are qualify for this voting if they played at least once in Master Division. here are some interesting results (so far) ...

From 7 people I asked, only 1 (myself) was asked about format. I was asked in Internet, indirectly and without mentioning about 7/8 rounds change and that I "participate in official voting".

From those 7 only one is OK with 5 days. 7 rounds change and 2 more are OK with 5 days but not 7 rounds.

Michael Holmes (ACF Player Representative) said on January 3rd 2014 that several Master players were asked and I am still wondering who they are ? Maybe it will be much easy if Michael just disclose their names and results of voting ?

I continue my voting and investigation. In the meantime I am asking - if any of you have contact information (emails or phones) about Steve Jones, Mike Fulkerson and Harvey Kelley ?

All after all - we have to understand clearly and perfectly, what was 1st - egg or chicken. Hotel managers and ACF administration can't tell Master players how to play Master Division. Only official vote, in advance (preferable) or on site (during National) can be counted.

More news are coming.

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Re: 2014 ACF National fiasco.

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:35 am

Preliminary results of voting:

1) 100% said they were never asked. I consider finally that nobody asked myself and other people in Internet officially and formally to participate in voting and giving clearly all options.

2) 75% said they vote for 8 rounds, 25% voted for 7 rounds.

3) 50% said they vote for 6 days, 25% voted for 5 days, and 25% were OK with either 5 or 6 days.

Michael Holmes said in this forum that "several" people choose 7 rounds and 5 days. This is not exactly what my preliminary results reflect. Checkers community would like to hear now from Michael Holmes - who were those "several" players who was asked prior January 3rd (day when he posted this information) and voted for 7 rounds and 5 days.

After this prove we can move ahead.

This is not a first attempt when American Checkers Federation tries to revoke Masters privilege to vote on any life important changes to 3-moves National Master Division format. We can't tolerate this. It is on-going attempt to degrade level of Master Division.

I know for sure that number of days/rounds would never ever go up, that's why I don't want them go down.

It is very bad "tradition" and practice that any new ACF administration tries to change something in Master Division format. But before we change anything, we have to answer - why we need change, what is wrong and/or can be improve.

All after all, I don't really know what are benefits from 5 days/7 rounds rather then satisfaction of hotel manager.

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Re: 2014 ACF National fiasco.

Postby Chexhero on Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:12 pm

The ACF administration is currently considering different options and are in the process of creating a ballot for voting, which members of all divisions can participate in. This will be administered in an upcoming bulletin well before the National tournament. Divisions will be casting votes for specific format changes regarding the 3 Move National tournament this year. Nothing regarding the format (rounds, time, scoring, etc.) is set in stone yet.
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Re: 2014 ACF National fiasco.

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:41 pm

Chexhero wrote:The ACF administration is currently considering different options and are in the process of creating a ballot for voting, which members of all divisions can participate in. This will be administered in an upcoming bulletin well before the National tournament. Divisions will be casting votes for specific format changes regarding the 3 Move National tournament this year. Nothing regarding the format (rounds, time, scoring, etc.) is set in stone yet.
Thanks for update, Joe!

What about ACF announcement in this forum on January 3rd that "several people" voted for 5 days, 7 rounds format ? What ACF plans to do with this issue - just leave it behind, take sanctions, cover up, support this statement (provide prove) ?

I am OK with anything ... just show that ACF didn't ignore an issue and stands for it's own words.

I would like to prevent this situation in future. This fiasco should not happen again next or any other year. We have to vote and change BY-LAWS prohibiting any life important format changes without proper voting. ACF is not a secret organization.

Personally, I am tired to patronage ACF for years with same things ... once again ! We had this situation in the past, we have it today and we shouldn't have it in future.

Here is another example how ACF treat their pay members

Michael Holmes wrote:rules to be allowed to vote suggested by you seem too rigid. Provide a list of those who want something different and why, and we will review.
I always thought that proper vote of all affected members is the only way. And in Master division it's long old tradition.

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Re: 2014 ACF National fiasco.

Postby Michael Holmes on Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:19 am

The tournament is scheduled for five days. I am not sure if you cannot understand English or if it is just that you like to interpret things your way and be rude about what you say moiseyeev. As I have said from the start the tournament will be five days. The plan was to have 7 rounds but there seem to be some better options that I/we would rather vote on now instead of waiting until the tournament to vote on. And of course, instead of you trying to take some text out of context I will also point out that you are not the one who decides who gets to vote for any division. And as Dr. Beckwith pointed out to you in an email, there were two bids, both of which I submitted. We chose the one with five days and $750.00.
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Re: 2014 ACF National fiasco.

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:14 am

Thanks for update, Michael. I am glad to see things are getting back on track and hopefully could be ended soon with something better and more attractive. I am glad to see ACF started listening experienced and competent people and advices. I would be double glad if anything ACF does right now (setting voting) - do it in advance without tremendous painful for all pushing.

You also should understand that all these dialogue is not about you, it's about ACF as a whole organization. And I don't want only my opinion would be listening, I want ACF to listen everyone. For me the most important is only one thing: any changes to Master Division must be vote in advance among players. Simple, easy.

We repeat this dialogue again and again every 2 years. Lets hope the change we make, will be adopted by checkers fraternity and never challenge again.

Personally I am in favor of Robin Round 5 days 14-16 players, 2 games round, scoring ballot. It will be nice if this option will be on ballot.

Probably ballot on February ACFB should have the following or close options;

1) Swiss, 5 days, 7 rounds, 4 games per round
2) Swiss, 5 days, 8 rounds, 4 games per round
3) Swiss, 6 days, 8 rounds, 4 games per round
4) Robin Round, 5 days, 14-16 players, 2 games per round ''

And another important thing: number of players in Master Division must be permanent without fluctuations from year to year. Lets say we pick 16. If number of volunteers some year will be more than 16 - cut off by rating or coin or some other method. If number of volunteers will be less than 16 - pick extra players from Major Division by using the same method: rating or coin.

We need "fix" number of players in Master Division, because overall number of players is dropping and we can't stop this process. Some day we'll have two and eventually one Division. In this case Master Division will be impacted last. It may take another 20-30 years to get to this point.

You don't trust me ? Just wait ... Me and you will be witnessing this in 2030's.

Good luck to you and ACF in your journey !

There is only one way to prove pudding - eat it !

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Alex Moiseyev
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Re: 2014 ACF National fiasco.

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:54 pm

One more confusing thing with this unfortunate National ...

Michael Holmes wrote:And as Dr. Beckwith pointed out to you in an email, there were two bids, both of which I submitted. We chose the one with five days and $750.00.


Michael Holmes wrote:The J. Chappell bid for Louisville KY is for July 23rd thru July 27th and Leon Creek has agreed to be the referee. ... More details will be posted in a couple of weeks.


1) I am confuse: who is bid organizer - M. Holmes or J. Chappell ?!

2) Details were not posted.

3) What else inaccuracies and hiding secrets we should expect from ACF and this unfortunate bid ???

4) Personally I don't need any ACF explanation and excuses, I need them to be professional and competent: perform their duties, follow laws and traditions and listen members.

Lets hope ACF in the nearest future will be more democratic and trustful organization.

Good luck !

Respectfully,

Alex Moiseyev
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Re: 2014 ACF National fiasco.

Postby Alex holmes on Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:36 pm

With all do respect Alex, but I don't think it's the right idea to force somebody to play in any division, I know you're trying to make this fit right and I see where you are coming.
But, if there was somebody having a hard time to do good in any tournament, for example like me, if you put me in the masters and I still struggle then it's not fair to me (especially if we happen to play winner takes all which we need to vote on that again because I don't think anybody likes it anymore.) Lets face the truth here, I have been having the worse year ever as a checker player, and the last thing I want to do is face you or especially Joe Moore. I think it should be 15 2-game rounds no matter how many players we have as long as we have 13 players (which we should have more.)




Suggestively,
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Re: 2014 ACF National fiasco.

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:52 pm

Alex, Robin Round is a great idea and I like it, but it works only if we have "fix" number of players, 14, 16 or whatever. If this number is fluctuated from year to year - more or less depends on people attendance and wishes, it's not an option.

In this case I personally prefer do not change anything with existing system: 6 days (this year - 5), 8 rounds with 4 games, scoring per ballot.

We can't play "sets of 2 games" without Robin Round format - it will be big mess and lottery. That's why I can't select option #2 on ballot which we received with February ACFB

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Re: 2014 ACF National fiasco.

Postby Michael Holmes on Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:19 pm

Just to be clear on what has happened. Many people have supported moiseyev who has said many wrongful things about me. Please, if you are a supporter of moiseyev and/or acker, understand you have supported someone who has knowingly said things about me that isn't true. moiseyev may be good at playing checkers but he is not a good person. Read his posts again if you haven't figured it out. I haven't played in as many tournaments as I have in the past due to the nasty environment. One of the things I did decide to do is not host any tournaments. While the 2014 ACF left a lot to be desired the 2014 WCDF that I held was great. But it will be the last one I hold for the adults.
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