A little december teaser

Discussion and analysis about certain positions.

A little december teaser

Postby MostFamousDane on Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:03 pm



Black to play and ?
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Re: A little december teaser

Postby john reade on Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:24 am

Draw? Black is a man up, but White can get a king.
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Re: A little december teaser

Postby john reade on Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:25 am

Am I missing something?
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Re: A little december teaser

Postby MostFamousDane on Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:28 am

Maybe :)

What are the moves ?
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Re: A little december teaser

Postby George Hay on Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:33 pm

Hello Sune! I have tried to solve "a little december teaser." I tried it on my own only to get into plenty
of shots moving the black pieces against the computer. Next I tried various computer programs on various
settings, and I did try forcing some moves to see what would happen. Finally I set KingsRow (the free download version) on exact 5 minutes, giving the computer as much time as a human would get. Well,
I have come full circle, KingsRow with 300 seconds per move to calculate will soon allow black to give up with white playing a two for three shot! The moves are:
1. 7-11, 15x8; 2. 4x11, 23 18; 3. 12-16, 9 5; 4. 16-19, 27 24; 5. 20x27, 31x24x15x8;
6. 3x12, 5 1; etc. to a white win!
So I'm back to square one! (no clue)
--George Hay
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Re: A little december teaser

Postby MostFamousDane on Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:56 pm

Ok George here is what I have

On my machine Kingsrow prefers 17-22 as in 17-22 9-5 4-8 5-1 2-6 1-10 7-14 15-10 14-17 10-6 17-21 6-1 22-25 1-6 25-29 6-10 29-25 23-18 25-22 18-14 12-16 14-9 16-19 9-6 19-24 6-2 22-17 2-6 8-12 10-15 17-14 6-1 14-9 15-18 9-13 1-6 13-17 30-26 3-8 6-10 17-13 18-22 13-9 26-23 9-5 23-19 5-9 19-15 9-5 10-14 5-1 15-10 8-11 10-7 11-15 7-2 12-16 14-10 15-19 2-6 1-5 6-1 5-9 1-5 9-13 10-15 19-23 27-18 24-27 31-24 20-27 32-23 White win

4-8 (or 12-16) draws though as in 4-8 9-5 12-16 5-1 16-19 23-16 7-11 16-7 2-18 1-6 18-22 27-23 17-21 6-9 22-25 31-27 25-29 9-14 3-7 23-19 29-25 14-17 8-11 19-16 11-15 16-12 15-19 12-8 19-24 27-23 24-27 23-18 7-11 32-23 Draw
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Re: A little december teaser

Postby George Hay on Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:59 pm

Sune, thanx! I somehow managed to put an extra white man on 29,
I did have the right set up in Wincheck, but somewhere along the way I forgot to do a simple piece check in Checkerboard! I'll re-run the 5 minute Kingsrow setting and post what happens. Back to the drawing board, er, checkerboard!
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Re: A little december teaser

Postby john reade on Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:36 am

Sune,

Colossus gives 7-10 at move 5 instead of 2-6 to a draw.

John.
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Re: A little december teaser

Postby MostFamousDane on Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:57 am

Hi John

17-22 9-5 4-8 5-1 7-10 also loses like this

15-6 2-9 1-6 9-13 6-9 13-17 9-14 17-21 14-17 22-25 23-18 12-16 17-22 25-29 black will simply lose its pieces one by one now.

You SERIOUSLY need to acquire a draughts program from this century :).
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Re: A little december teaser

Postby john reade on Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:11 pm

Sune,

Colossus agrees!

The problem with Colossus is that it is 20 years old and won't look more than 15 moves ahead without crashing. 20 years ago that took 2 days so didn't matter.

John.
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Re: A little december teaser

Postby George Hay on Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:27 pm

Sune, I ran KingsRow this time with the correct position. With the five minute and two minute settings, the problem ends in a draw. They follow the moves in your solution until white's sixth move. On the one minute setting it is also a draw. With one minute per move, my computer moves the same moves as your computer on the above KingsRow example, but on the ninth move my computer played 9. ... 31 16 allowing a draw, while KingsRow on your computer played 9. ... 23 18 for the white win. KingsRow on thirty seconds was a white win, with black not playing 12-16 until the ninth move! "A little december teaser" is a fine problem balancing superiority of forces with superiority of position!

--George Hay
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Re: A little december teaser

Postby Bill Salot on Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:58 pm

Sune,

You said, "You SERIOUSLY need to acquire a draughts program from this century."

Although you were not talking to me, the statement could apply to me.

How and where does one find such a program in this day and age?
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Re: A little december teaser

Postby MostFamousDane on Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:18 am

Hi Bill

Kingsrow is the only program currently on the market that has a 10 piece db so I would get that:
http://edgilbert.org/Checkers/KingsRow.htm
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