What's the best?

Discussion and analysis about a full game.

Re: What's the best?

Postby AKA on Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:30 am

CheckersStrongplayer wrote:My screen name for Kurnik is Immaster973, i used to have this same screen name for pogo but it got blocked, why are you asking anyways, what's yours?


matisyahu
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Re: What's the best?

Postby Patrick Parker on Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:38 am

without the programs using their opening books
maybe kingsrow and cake fair better
but with 1 million move opening book nemesis is hard to beat
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Re: What's the best?

Postby CheckersStrongplayer on Sun Mar 26, 2006 1:10 pm

yes it is and it would be almost impossible to beat it, ok Igo i got it
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Re: What's the best?

Postby Martin Fierz on Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:35 am

Patrick Parker wrote:without the programs using their opening books
maybe kingsrow and cake fair better
but with 1 million move opening book nemesis is hard to beat


that's exactly what i wrote :-)
by the way, my full book now has 2.2 million opening moves...

cheers
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Re: What's the best?

Postby CheckersStrongplayer on Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:14 am

it does? is this a new update that i haven't found about?
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Re: What's the best?

Postby Ed Gilbert on Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:38 am

Patrick Parker wrote:without the programs using their opening books
maybe kingsrow and cake fair better
but with 1 million move opening book nemesis is hard to beat


I agree that any of the programs that have large opening books are very hard to beat. One point about the Nemesis opening book -- IIRC the 1 million positions you mentioned (actually it says 1.2M at the Nemesis web site) is the count of positions + colors-reversed positions, so the actual number of positions stored is 600K. The majority of these colors-reversed book positions are unreachable in a legal checkers game. In the KingsRow opening book only 1.3% of all the positions have colors-reversed equivalents also in the book, and no effort was made to avoid or exclude these equivalents in building it. This indicates to me that doing book lookups on colors-reversed equivalents adds almost no value. I think Murray agrees with this, and that he advertised the product this way in response to WCC's double-counting their book positions.

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Re: What's the best?

Postby Kolsz on Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:00 pm

Good topic! Very useful :):)
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Re: What's the best?

Postby CheckersStrongplayer on Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:50 pm

Yes, that's why i made this topic to solve questions that i've been asking myself for a while, so Nemesis could probably beat Cake and KingsRow without their books :?:
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Re: What's the best?

Postby Gene Lindsay on Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:59 pm

Yes, Nemisis could probably beat Cake and Kingsrow if you turned off their opening books and left Nemisis's opening book on. But if you turned Nemisis's opening book off as well, they both would clobber Nemisis. They both search about twice as deep on my computer as Nemisis at 1 minute a move.


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Re: What's the best?

Postby Gene Lindsay on Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:01 am

Yes, Nemisis could probably beat Cake and Kingsrow if you turned off their opening books and left Nemisis's opening book on. But if you turned Nemisis's opening book off as well, they both would clobber Nemisis. They both search almost twice as deep on my computer as Nemisis at 1 minute a move.


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Re: What's the best?

Postby CheckersStrongplayer on Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:06 am

Without it's book it's like a piece of trash against Cake and KingsRow, very interesting :) Why did you post that twice Gene?
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Re: What's the best?

Postby Patrick Parker on Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:55 am

i think that just happens on boards like this sometimes
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Re: What's the best?

Postby CheckersStrongplayer on Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:07 pm

like what?
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Re: What's the best?

Postby Patrick Parker on Tue Mar 28, 2006 9:46 pm

message boards
like u click send but it looks like it doesnt send
so u resend.......if this doesnt make sense ...then it just never happened
to you.....used to happen to me at bbs all the time
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Re: What's the best?

Postby CheckersStrongplayer on Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:16 am

ohhh yea, that has happened to me too before as well
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