TN 2008 Single Corner

Discussion and analysis about a full game.

TN 2008 Single Corner

Postby Michael Holmes on Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:26 pm

[Event "2008 TN ty 11-15 22-18 15-22"]
[Date ""]
[Black "John Webster"]
[White "Michael Holmes"]
[Result "1-0"]
1. 11-15 22-18 2. 15x22 25x18 3. 8-11 24-19 4. 11-16 29-25 5. 4-8 18-14 6. 9x18 23x14 7.
16x23 27x18 8. 10x17 21x14 9. 8-11 26-23 10. 6-9 32-27 11. 11-16 30-26 12. 1-6 28-24 13.
16-20 24-19 14. 7-11 19-15 15. 12-16 15x8 16. 3x12 18-15 17. 9x18 23x14 18. 16-19 14-10
19. 6-9 15-11 20. 19-24 11-8 21. 24-28 8-4 22. 28-32 26-23 23. 9-14 4-8 24. 14-17 25-21
25. 17-22 21-17 26. 5-9 10-7 27. 2x11 8x15 28. 9-13 17-14 29. 22-25 14-10 30. 13-17 10-7
31. 17-22 15-18 32. 25-29 18x25 33. 29x22 7-3 34. 22-17 3-7 35. 17-13 7-10 36. 13-9 10-15
37. 9-6 15-18 38. 6-10 18-22 39. 10-15 22-25 40. 12-16 25-22
{loses. I had planned on moving 25-30 about 12 moves ago but changed my mind here. A good win by Mr. Webster.}
41. 16-19 23x16 42. 32x23 16-12 43. 15-11 22-17 44. 23-18 17-13 45. 18-14 31-27 1-0
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Re: TN 2008 Single Corner

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:07 pm

Nice "cat and mouse" play :lol: In such kind of positions I usually ask: "who plays for win ?" It seems like white played here for win couple moves longer then they should. After then from "draw everywhere" the game was transfered into "delicate draw" mode and eventually white missed a star drawn move .

Very instructive ending where 3 white pieces 23,27,31 were trapped (see diagram) ... good thing to know. Personally - I learned something from this ending.

Michael, thanks for sharing this game with us.

White to move
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25-22? loses, 25-30* draw

Regards,

Alex
I am playing checkers, not chess.
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Re: TN 2008 Single Corner

Postby Ingo_Zachos on Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:59 am

Alex_Moiseyev wrote:... It seems like white played here for win couple moves longer then they should. After then from "draw everywhere" the game was transfered into "delicate draw" mode and eventually white missed a star drawn move .

...



Hmmmm
If I would give at a first glimpse, I would say that both played along well-trodden paths in a dyke structure that is known since the beginning of checker history.
14.7-11 seems to me the first try to get something original, and red seemed to be bad for many moves, as white gets an active king, and red's king seemed to be useless at square 32.
But: thinking deeper, one would say that placing the pieces on 31,27 and 23 was an idea which has some setbacks as this elbow structure is also restricted by the king on 32 and the piece on 20.
And, as I have to admit, it seems like Alex' advice that mobility is the key to checker strategy is correct!
Here the three immobile pieces(the elbow) remain unplayed until red changes this structure with a clear win at hands.
So it is a kind of "two hold three" theme, and as we saw, the other red pieces were actually even more active then the remaining white pieces, and produced a number of active kings that could be used to attack the elbow.
All in all, red had a deeper strategic plan, and though 25-30 may be a draw, red planned deeper and with better positional judgement.
In my mind the game after allowing the 31/27/23 elbow was critical for white, and should have been avoided.
Maybe the whole plan beginning with 14.-19-15 was not the best, and someting like 14.-25-21 shoulb be played.

But wait! Am I too dogmatic ? Can white spoil the red plan ?
My remarks above give me the idea of trying to go for two kings with white after the 16.-18-15 trade, and indeed maybe 20.- 10-7 with the idea of crowning both active white pieces suits better to the structure here, and indeed after 21. 24-28 7-3, 22. 28-32 26-23 (same structure as in the game. but white is more active, and that makes the difference!)23.12-16 (he must do something to break the stucture as 23.9-14 25-22 (to stop 14-18) 24. 5-9 3-7 25. 9-13 7-10 allows active white kings!)3-8 and after 24. 16-19 23x16 25. 32x23 11-7 it looks drawish, though white gets his kings a little bit earlier.

So all in all:
White had good chances, even after the elbow was established, but should have played more actively in that structure.
As the game fairly well shows, he has not much time to spent, as red then could make active kings and the inactive elbow is a telling factor.

Greetinx from Dortmund, Germany

Ingo Zachos
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Re: TN 2008 Single Corner

Postby MostFamousDane on Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:59 am

Ingo_Zachos wrote:
Hmmmm
If I would give at a first glimpse, I would say that both played along well-trodden paths in a dyke structure that is known since the beginning of checker history.
14.7-11 seems to me the first try to get something original

Ingo Zachos


Hmm which book are you looking in Ingo ???? As early as at the third move you out of the most common books (Lee's, Kears, Basic Checkers,Anderson etc). If you look in a game collection such as Igor's at the 10th move there is no more games. So what exactly do you mean by well-trodden path ?

Sune
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Re: TN 2008 Single Corner

Postby Ingo_Zachos on Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:17 pm

I was not thinking of a particular game that I could cite (published play), but was thinking of how dyke structures r handled,
and that way I would chose 14.6-10 as the "usual" plan, with 14.7-11 as more "unusual".
If I remember correctly what the opening theory says, then 9.12-16 is more often played then 9.8-11, but I am not that versed on the 8-11 Single Corner.

Anyway, I was not thinking of that as a turning point in this game,as both sides still have equal chances, but rather about the trade with 16. ...18-15, which at first seemed strategically suspiciuos to me, but on a second thought I found that follow-up with 20. ... 10-7, which makes the whole plan look better.

So maybe 16. ... 18-15 is good, but needs an active follow-up that white failed to find, and from then things started getting worse for white, whith an ending that was hard to handle, and which only offered a hard fight for a narrow draw as a prospect.

If I think of a game I first remember the plans and structures, and I have some examples in mind, which I meant with "well-trodden paths".
It was no reference to published play, Sune.

Greetinx from Dortmund to Danemark,

Ingo
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Re: TN 2008 Single Corner

Postby Jay H on Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:08 pm

WOW...!!!

You gents are all tops in my book...!!!
Thanx for all the insight !
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Regards

Jay H
Aut Inveniam Viam Aut Faciam !!!
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Re: TN 2008 Single Corner

Postby Michael Holmes on Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:41 am

I agree with Alex. I should have quit playing for the win a few moves before 5-9. I had used a lot of time to get to the stage like 8 moves before that and then we started moving a little fast. After he made his 5-9 move I realized that I should start looking for a draw. At that point I had planned on moving 25-30 but when I finally got there I was exhausted and quickly thought that if he traded 23-27 after the 16-19 pitch that it would be an easy draw. It was a tired mistake and I give Mr. Webster credit for wearing me down. The first game I had a win on the board and I knew it but I never could find it. This was the last round and a very long round. After not playing checkers for the last six months I am satisfied with my 2nd place finish. It was a pleasure playing checkers again.
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Re: TN 2008 Single Corner

Postby william on Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:19 pm

It is a result that you should be proud of Micheal.

How many times though have we had wins on the board or even 1 move draws and let them slip past us due to mental fatigue or ''as in our case"" lack of competetive practice!!

I suppose that is what makes this game so intriguing , one can see 10 or 25 moves ahead in 3 or four main variations ; then sub variants and ... lose a game on a 1 move dud.

A factor for me which I consider contributes to better playing , when this is considered , before any ty. is the psychological preperation. One must be able to have a total control of body and mind and discipline of mental attitude so as to always canalise ones attention in the right direction.

WILLIAM
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Re: TN 2008 Single Corner

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:10 am

william wrote:one can see 10 or 25 moves ahead in 3 or four main variations ;

Dear William, you don't have to look so many moves ahead. In most situations you just need to look only one move ahead - the move which you have to make :lol: Think about ...

Alex
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Re: TN 2008 Single Corner

Postby william on Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:36 pm

Alex_Moiseyev wrote:
william wrote:- the move which you have to make Alex


Yes Alex

Unfortunately the hardest move on the board is the one that we need to find ; and quite often in a twelve move combination
(for example a stroke) it is not the final sweep that is hard to see ,it is the starter :oops:
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Re: TN 2008 Single Corner

Postby Patrick Parker on Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:42 pm

i think he is talking about how to find that next move
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Re: TN 2008 Single Corner

Postby tommyc on Tue May 20, 2008 3:23 pm

Hmmmm..............The secret is, dont change your mind Michael once you have decided,for right or wrong.It may be a chink in your armour?.
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