Comment from ACF President .................................

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Comment from ACF President .................................

Postby Alan Millhone on Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:51 pm

Hello everyone:

My only comment is that I wish that all the mean and nasty postings stop on the ACF Forum. Each of you that post a reply to a nasty posting only add fuel to the fire. Several have commented that the ACF Forum is too cumbersome.................... Remember for mean and nasty postings the BBS is once again operational . The holidays are approaching and now would be a fine time to call a 'cease fire' for the Christmas season and 2006 is just around the corner. My late Father used to say, " two wrongs don't make a right " . I am not going to take sides, but feel many of you should stand back and take a look at how you appear on a world wide site.

Sincerely:
Alan Millhone, President
American Checker Federation
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Comment from ACF

Postby liam stephens on Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:13 pm

Alan Millhone said:
I wish that all the mean and nasty postings stop...Each of you that post a reply to a nasty posting only add fuel to the fire.


I am sure all would agree with that, but one must ask who it is, that is adding fuel to the fire. I would refer you to my posting from as long ago as Fri 9th Dec under the heading Site Addiction and the sentence beginning "Perhaps..." That also made a plea to "stand back".
I also recall a similar request from Lindus Edwards requesting a truce from Ms Becky. I think that sooner or later you will have to acknowledge that the chief factor in fuelling the fire is the provocative statements from the world champion who cannot seem to open his mouth without invoking somebody's wrath. The continuous unkind comments to Jan Mortimer are a case in point and I believe you must take courage in your hands and tell him - world champion or not - that "enough is enough".

Remember for mean and nasty postings the BBS is once again operational
.



That is rather a cheap jibe Alan, particularly in view of your 'Welcome Back' message to George on the BBS. I think you need to look much closer to home in this instance. I find it totally out of character from someone whom I greatly respect and admire.

Yours sincerely, Liam Stephens.
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Comment from ACF President

Postby liam stephens on Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:32 am

May I join Alan in saying to all: " let everybody stand back".
I left this forum under the cloud of an unjust accusation, and only returned to defend the honour and respect of my good friend Jan Mortimer. And now I take my leave.

I wish all who view here a happy and peaceful Christmas.

Liam Stephens.

_______________________________________________

Serenity Prayer

God grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The Courage to change the things I can,
And the Wisdom to know the difference.

Thought for 2006:

Invite Corey Modich to introduce his Daily Wisdoms feature into the ACF Forum topics. (Corey, Corey, Hallelujah)
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Reply to Mr. Liam Stephens

Postby Alan Millhone on Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:25 am

Hello Liam:

I ask that you nor anyone else leave the forum . I originally stated that with the forum and the BBS posters would have a choice of forums to use, right? I want the ACF Forum to be used for fruitful discussions on our game, for posting of tournament results, for reminders of upcoming tourneys, for discussion on lines of play and for the use of diagrams to show a particular landing or for the study of problems.

Mr. George Miller's BBS is a totally 'open' forum where you can post virtually whatever you like and be totally anon. if you so desire. George will eliminate vulgar postings :-) The ACF Forum was set up intentionally to be more restrictive in nature. Perhaps my use of 'mean and nasty postings' was a poor choice of words and if I offended you I apologize. The ACF Forum was not set up to compete with the BBS, but now posters have a choice of forums, which is great! My hope is for both forums to co-exist and perhaps compliment each other. I only want what is best for our game and the ACF. I also belong to the EDA,NWDF,SDA and Barbado's Draughts Assoication. I am proud to do my part to support all those fine organizations. I simply want all negatives (as much as possible) to vanish from the ACF Forum. Just my dream.......................

Sincerely:
Alan Millhone, President
American Checker Federation
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Comment from ACF

Postby liam stephens on Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:23 am

Dear Alan,

Thank you for your kind comments. You have always been of the utmost assistance in dealing with queries I have raised. Nothing that you have said has ever offended me in any way and no apology is called for. I too, hope the negative postings will now cease.

My sincere good wishes for the coming season of peace and goodwill.

Liam Stephens.
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Re: Comment from ACF President .............................

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:26 am

:lol:
Last edited by Alex_Moiseyev on Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I am playing checkers, not chess.
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Comment from ACF

Postby liam stephens on Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:23 pm

Dear Alan,

I had hoped that my last message to you, above, would bring final closure to some of the previous items of dispute on this forum, without the presence, as it were, of an unwelcome guest breathing over one's shoulder. I find the arguments along the lines of " If you delete your post, I'll delete mine" disingenuous at best, nor do I appreciate messages to me being used as a means for pursuing his seperate dispute with Lindus Edwards. That is the path to rekindle the flames and I do not propose to take it.
As regards the previous posts which either he or I found offensive I regard the subject as closed and hope that he will do likewise, and leave it at that.
I thought I had made it abundantly clear in an earlier posting that
"I have nothing more to say to him".

Yours sincerely, Liam Stephens.
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Mr President

Postby kiwinurse on Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:20 pm

Liam has been so true in what hes said,and im also upset for him,because he is an honourable man.As far as deleting of posts go,it will not solve the problem,because people including myself have been greatly upset by Alexs remarks,and that kind of thing stays with you, you cannot delete it away, nor bury your head in the sand. Relationships are damaged, and there has been no apologies made to the damaged parties, only deletions as if that makes everything ok and sanitizes it all.In actual fact what the deletions are saying are- hey, you can say anything you like about anybody, because it can be deleted afterwards.There is no accountability in this,or any responsibility taken
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Re: Comment from ACF President .............................

Postby hans on Sat Dec 17, 2005 5:01 am

Hi Alan,

I understand your wishes about this forum (about checkers, tournaments, anouncements, etc.) but I think that is what George intends his forum to be too!

Some of the discussions you'd prefer not having on this forum, involved some non-anon posters :!: which I respect highly but the truth is, we are all who we are and sometimes people collide regardless of what forum we are on. If this is to be a true community forum there will be a bit of everything as it is in the real world. I also wish for peace and everybody to get along but we all know this is not the reality.
People will always find loop holes in any type of forum. For example I'm a bit worried about the recent trend of people erasing (by editing) their original posts! In my view this is something that should only be used to edit a typing error or something but now people have found a way to flee their responsabilities which were to be enforced by them using their real names in the first place! (Maybe this needs a seperate topic.)
Don't get me wrong, technically I like this type of forum better. Way more easy to follow up on the messages and nobody can post in my name (unless I was hacked of course).

I too hope this forum will be a succes but even some of the people we know sometimes step out of the lines.

Hans
Last edited by hans on Sat Dec 17, 2005 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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True can not be offensive.

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Sat Dec 17, 2005 10:22 am

Hi, Hans !

I don't know you are aware or not - recently me and Mr. Lindus Edwards from England deleted some our posts. I am very happy with this action, though - it wasn't an absolutely even trade, because he deleted just "pitching dirty" messages regards Ms. Becky with no sense, I deleted highly sensitive serious messages, which contained an absolute true, but were find offensive.

In my opinion, and also in Russia, true never could be offensive, I only said that his contacts with Ms. Jan Mortimer (New Zealand) during her recent 3 moves Woman World Championship match in Ireland, had influence on her play and ruined match.

Later someone (I don't know who and don't care) falsly transform my message into message regards Mr. Edwards coaching skills. This is usual tactics so-called "intellectuals" on this forum, who pathetically post information, and also keep a piece of dirty behind, and ready any time to send it to the face of opponent. Creating smoke and hate atmsphere - also sign of so-called "intellectuals"

This trade (exchanging by deleted messages) also wasn't even, because we both deleted posts under our real names only.

If someone concern about deleted (erased) messages, I can give you advise:

as soon as you see the post you find offensive or want to keep - just quote it and repeat in forum ! Then post is saved and secured from erasing, because people can edit only their own posts.

In my historical message I used word "bombing", which I treated as "sending", but my son explained me difference. I also said - "phone calls", because this was impression from BBS.

Deleting (erasing post) is woderful feature on my opinion. This is ideal free speech of free people - dream of George Miller from England.

=============================================================

If some one still beleive, that Mr. Lindus Edwards (England) contacts did not ruin anything, you can post this (don't be affraid) and we'll discuss this. I already provided my arguments - notes in checkers literature, my own experience, match score and progress.

What are your arguments, my dear miserable intellectuals ?

Several people asked me last night to re-post my arguments - because this is very valuable information, and important for history - to know the true and my opinion on this matter. People who emailed me didn't find this offensive.

I proposed these people to post here and reflect their own opinion, but they told me - this is not a good place to say the true and they don't feel comfortable to do this. They don't feel friendly atmopshere on this foum. This is most serious issue which we need to think about and fix.

Please, jump and copy,copy, copy, copy, copy this message immediately ... who knows - maybe it will be also deleted some day ! :idea:

HA-HA-HA ! ==> Spiders in glass (spiders usually eat each other).

Respectfully,

Alex

Proud to say true and true only, no
matter how offensive it could be.
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Comment from ACF

Postby liam stephens on Sat Dec 17, 2005 12:47 pm

Dear Jan and Hans,

A sincere thank you for your kind and courteous replies.
I too, do not believe that postings should be subsequently altered other than for typos or grammatical errors. The time for editing is before you press the submit button, not afterwards. I have never amended any of my postings, though I believe some of the topics have been deleted in total by the administrator.

To make allegations in one breath and withdraw them in the next, is not in my view, the way to go about one's business. When I was unjustly accused of Antisemitism, that was indeed a great shock and I am pleased to hear privately that a number of highly respected players were also shocked by that allegation. In my case that was doubly so, since I grew up in the aftermath of the 2nd World War and am acutely aware of the horrors of the Holocost.

Alex in a later posting said that he believed there was no intent on my part, (which is certainly true) though he still considered that the wording I had used was subject to such interpretation and put it down to a difference in our cultural education and background. I do not find that argument totally convincing, however, or acceptable, though it may be part of the story. After his allegation I carefully examined all my postings to see if, even inadvertently, I had said something offensive, but I have failed to find anything. The words "pawn" or "pawnshop" are perfectly neutral words in the English language and do not have hidden connotations. Indeed, Arie van der Stoep in his recent book devotes a considerable amount of space in discussing the "Etymology" of the word pawn. (I wish Alex had read that book, though a trifle intellectual, it is excellent on etymology and might have prevented the current controversy) Incidentally, the song which I quoted from was a top hit in the 1950's and broadcast daily over the airwaves in both America and Britain thousands of times without ever offending anyone. No, the fact of the matter is, Alex uses a catch phrase to end his messages - "There is always something behind the Corner....." and I used a similar phrase containing the word "corner" in my post. Neither should or could have offended anybody. However, it is said that even the word "Yes" can be found offensive by some, as any reader of James Joyce's "Ulysses" might tell you. (for non-intellectuals, you don't need to plough through all 732 pages, just the last page will do)

I have read elsewhere that the dispute between Lindus and Alex is resolved. I welcome that and hope that we can now move on.

Liam Stephens.
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Re: Comment from ACF President .............................

Postby Lindus Edwards on Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:08 pm

The dispute between Alex and myself has been resolved to our mutual satisfaction and we are prepared to forget about the issue which caused offense to others. I made copious apologies for the use of words which I now regret and trust this makes an end of matters.
I am prepared to forget about the allegations which hurt me to the extent of replying in a sometimes vulgar fashion. I am only human after all and far from perfect. Only one man was perfect.
Let us all now move on :D
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Re: Comment from ACF President .............................

Postby Lindus Edwards on Sat Dec 17, 2005 5:48 pm

Alex wrote:

"If some one still beleive, that Mr. Lindus Edwards (England) contacts did not ruin anything, you can post this (don't be affraid) and we'll discuss this. I already provided my arguments - notes in checkers literature, my own experience, match score and progress."

I would like to read the opinions of others in this regard. Please be as honest with me as you wish as I will not take umbrage - I promise :lol:
I am not posting this question in order to rekindle any disagreement Alex and I have in this matter. I am merely trying to ascertain whether the opinion en masse is for or against me here :lol:
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Re: Comment from ACF President .............................

Postby Guest on Sat Dec 17, 2005 8:43 pm

Lindus I have spoken with a lot of my friends about this and not one of them thought you were wrong to contact Mrs Jan Mortimer about her match with Miss Patricia Breen.
If you and Mrs Mortimer exchanged emails before the world championship match it is your business and only yours. Why should Mr Alex Moiseyev concern himself about this? It has nothing to do with him.
I know you have spent many hundreds of hours playing Mr Mortimer and this could only have been a good thing for her. It would only be natural for you both to exchange emails and have chats about the match.
What does Mr Moiseyev want you to do? Have no contact with Mr Mortimer and not play her any games on the net?
A thought just crossed my mind Lindus. Perhaps Mr Moiseyev does not want you to have any contact with Mrs Mortimer so that she will not benefit from your coaching. That must be the reason. What other reason could he have?
It is obvious from many posting on this place and at the BBS that Mr Moiseyev does not like Mrs Mortimer so why then would he worry about her welfare?
Just think about it.
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