Is there a problem in Checkers.??

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Is there a problem in Checkers.??

Postby tommyc on Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:23 am

Having looked thru the ACF honors list of the National winners lists from 1951- 2003 the most obvious thing that struck me was practically(with one exception) no player in 52 years has graduated thru the ranks from winning a Minor National to winning a Senior National nor from winning a Senior National to winning a Master National. This begs the question is there a fundimental problem in checkers??

The exception to the rule was Joe Swartz* who was the only one to cross the divide.

Its just a honest observation and it would be interesting to hear other peoples reading of this situation.
Is there a fundimental problem in checkers or is our checker "destiny" already pre-written in Stone??
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Re: Is there a problem in Checkers.??

Postby mday on Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:13 pm

The real champions don't stay in the lower divisions as long as they can. Once a real champion recognizes an opportunity to play the best, he will take action to do so. Schwartz spent year after year winning the majors national when he had the chance to play in the masters. Then you see a player like Mike Fulkerson who was suppose to play in the majors, but given the opportunity, he wanted to play the best in the masters.
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Re: Is there a problem in Checkers.??

Postby tommyc on Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:47 pm

I think you miss the point mday...............Its when they move on up a division the fact is with the exception of Joe Swartz NO-ONE has managed to continue on and win at the higher level nationally?
Its a strange phenominum as i t dont happen in any other discipline that i know of?
My question remains is there a fundimental problem in checkers.
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Re: Is there a problem in Checkers.??

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:11 am

tommyc wrote:is there a fundimental problem in checkers.


No problems in checkers.
Last edited by Alex_Moiseyev on Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is there a problem in Checkers.??

Postby tommyc on Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:55 am

Thank you for your reply Alex...............Do you mean the right pple are not coming into the game b/c of the reasons you gave/and some of the reasons to do with the points you just made.Is the perception of checkers all wrong and how can we change it.

For a moment lets just work with the pple we have which was my original point .............so!!why are these pple that we have, not scaling the ladder to cross the divide??

Is the situation we have just the nature of the game ?ie...pple get involved more as they get older as a passtime and its a amateur thing for them,in other words they are quite happy to have some hobby.

Moving on Alex........what do you see as a solution and how would the points you gave restructure checkers to get to where im alluding to.

Is checkers just a fuddy duddy thing and will remain so,or will we ever become a semi-pro organisation and how would this be accomplished?

As you know politicians the nowadays look for a so called "legacy" to leave ,what will Alans legacy be as current President (and as one of his greatest supporters i dont mean this in any bad way).

Will the new WCDF try to restrucure or will it just be another *talking shop* and the status quo will remain with checkers being the poor relations as always?.

What are your personal thoughts or am i only dreaming?

Should there be a Forum to debate this here on the ACF?.
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Re: Is there a problem in Checkers.??

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:45 am

No problems in checkers.
Last edited by Alex_Moiseyev on Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Is there a problem in Checkers.??

Postby tommyc on Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:41 pm

Thanks for a good positive reply Alex.........What you say makes good sense but will the powers that be ever climb that hill?........do they have the will to do so?...Its a simple question but has anyone got inclination to answer it?..That i doubt.!!

My interest is purely for the improvement of draughts i have no interest what ever in any personal favors or positions.

But Alex its not too late for some b/c..........we still have the ol "half-a-loaf to play with ,that is the system we have now and believe you me the pple involved in it will feel every bit the lord n master in this penny halpenny system as they would in the way that we advocate.

Questions left unanswered usually go away or get under the carpet sooner or later ,only to return somewhere down the line that is when it may be too late.

My opinion is there is no better time to bring this debate into the open and have a serious discussion on it, no-one can hide behind the old addage of ...well its hard to communicate b/c of the distance we are apart geographically and all that kinda stuff, with the use of world wide communications as we have today that wont wash.

The absence of any kind of interest from "official" quarters may be a dispointment and the silence is Deafening but that wont stop interested parties, so im calling for a debate on the subject forthwith!!.

Let no-one think this letter is written in bad faith or in the interest of disrupting the way we do things nowadays, it is not.It is simply an attenpt to motivate movement in the way we do things and improve our lot.
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Re: Is there a problem in Checkers.??

Postby mday on Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:32 pm

tommyc wrote:Is checkers just a fuddy duddy thing and will remain so,or will we ever become a semi-pro organisation and how would this be accomplished?
.



ESPN! Or any type of televised coverage. If dominoes and scrabble can do this, checkers can too.
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Re: Is there a problem in Checkers.??

Postby Mr. Checkers on Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:56 pm

It is obvious that we need a new menu here. That will come at a much higher price, which many checker players would not be willing to pay. This same old subject area has been rehashed and rehashed repeatedly over the past 20 or more years; enough to fill many volumes of books. And all that still remains on our plate is basically the same old rehashed hash, which has been disguised or spiced up over those years with a little catsup. If we are going to serve up something new with more substance in it, such as pork chops or steak, then that will require much more than is presently being discussed here. Hopefully such a day will come (in the near future) when checker players can expect to find something more on their plates than just left over warmed up hash. I am told that miracles still do happen!!
Take care and God Bless. "Mr. Checkers"---Visit with "Inky" at: http://www.broenink-art.nl/maukie2.swf----"No act of kindness no matter how small is ever wasted". --Aesop--
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Comments from your ACF President

Postby Alan Millhone on Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:54 pm

Hello everyone:

I just got in from my day job and have read thru the interesting and thought provoking posts and problems the ACF and Checkers overall faces and has faced for decades. The ACF for example is totally made up of volunteers. Maybe that is part of the problem? Maybe we need a part time public relations person to seek out a corporate sponsor for the ACF ? To ever approach any corporation the ACF will have to present itself as other than a 'rag tag' organization. The ACF will have to look and be professional in every way. That is why I harp on professionalism in our ranks. A couple of years ago it was mentioned by then bulletin editor, Mr. Al Darrow and myself about dressing better for the Nationals. We both got a lot of guff over wanting a better dress appearance at National Tournaments among the players. Also at many tournaments many players persist on using horribly worn out boards and defective pieces. Players object to use of time clocks and recording of games. Everything I have written so far if implemented leads to much better public perception of our beloved game and will perhaps induce more players to join the ACF. Getting back to a corporate sponsor for the ACF............... This would lead to more visibility if the ACF is seeen associated with say the Cracker Barrel Restaurant Chain , etc. If anyone reading my post has any solid ideas and the time to look into your own idea, please let me know. A corporate sponsor would enhance our prize fund as well at National Tournaments and attract positive media attention. One respected player I know told me recently that the game of Checkers will always be around................ But the ACF might not be ! The ACF is 'top heavy' membership wise with Life Members.......... I am of late one myself. The remaining members who pay their $25.00 yearly dues is simply not enough in numbers to cover all ACF yearly expenses. The 6 ACF Bulletins per year literally 'eats up' 100% of everything your ACF takes into its treasury.

If you have ambitions of running for ACF President this next election, then you should be formulating your 'game plan' for adding many new members, attracting and keeping younger players, finding corporate sponsorship for the ACF, getting more bidders to chose from for our alternating 3-Move and GAYP National Tournaments, making the ACF more professional, etc. My posting will no doubt elicit a myramid of complaints,etc. I always welcome any constructive comments :-) However it is always easier to be an 'armchair quarterback' and stand back safely on the sidelines and moan. If you have a solid plan for moving the ACF forward then feel free to present your itinery on this forum :-) If valid I would consider not running the next election and would support you and your plan 100% .

Sincerely:
Alan Millhone, President
American Checker Federation
Journeyman Checker Player
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Re: Is there a problem in Checkers.??

Postby jimloy on Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:40 pm

About National Champs and Masters and Majors and Minors, the road to the top spends very little time in the Majors. To become a Master, you have to play Masters, not Majors. The very best players have always been Masters from an early age, by their first, second, or third tournament, in checkers and in chess. By the way, there are often one or two Masters in the Majors; Schwartz now plays in the Masters, not because he finally graduated, but because his playing in the Majors became a joke.
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Re: Is there a problem in Checkers.??

Postby mday on Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:07 am

The young masters of today have all also started out online. They went from online play straight to the masters division in 1 or 2 offline tournaments.
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Re: Is there a problem in Checkers.??

Postby Gene Lindsay on Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:24 am

[quote="tommyc"]

For a moment lets just work with the pple we have which was my original point .............so!!why are these pple that we have, not scaling the ladder to cross the divide?

Tommy, is your point you have to win 2 different divisions to have scaled the ladder to cross the divide? I played in my 1st Nat. Ty in 1984. I finished 5th in the minors. In 1986 I tied for 2nd in the Majors. In 1988 I tied for 13th in the Masters on match points but wound up 19th on honor points. I believe there were 43 players in the Masters that year. In 1989 I was an alternate on the USA Team in the 5th Inter. Match. So in 5 years I went from 5th in the minors to an alternate on the U.S. Inter. Team. But by your terms I didn't scale the ladder and cross the divide(whatever that means). Many of our Masters have similar stories. Some like John Webster, Clayton Nash, Anthony Bishop, and Jim Morrison did win the Major division as they moved up from the minors.. Tim Laverty, Richard Beckwith and Michael Holmes all played in the minors then majors and then Masters. You mentioned Schwartz and that just leaves Leo Levitt and he was already a master when they started having the seperate divisions of play. If you will notice that is all 10 boards of the U. S. 8th International Team. Tommy you really need to stay out of the bottle before you make posts.

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Re: Is there a problem in Checkers.??

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:55 am

I beleive Elbert Lowder also played Majors at least once before he was qualified for Masters ... somewhere in the beginning of 60's ... Is that correct ?

Les Balderson played in Majors.

Clayton Nash and Clint Olsen won Majors before they started play in Masters.

It is true, that not so many players won Masters, but this only proves the quality and hight standards of ACF main tournament. Remember - winner of Masters was qualified to challenge a World Champion ! There were no strangers in this company.

The problem in checkers, indeed, exists - consistantly dropping membership. But this is another story. :D

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Re: Is there a problem in Checkers.??

Postby Gene Lindsay on Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:23 am

Alex, I think the only times Elbert played in Majors was in the double knockout days, after he was knocked out of the Masters. By the time they seperated the divsions and started playing Swiss System, Elbert was already a master player.

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