2014 US National

Talk about upcoming tournaments or your experience at tournaments.

Re: 2014 US National

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:15 pm

With 14 players we can play rounds 2+3+3+3+3+2, with 16 players - 3+3+3+3+3. 6 games, 3 rounds every day.

Time control can be 90 minutes for 2 games -> to the rest of round. One round, 2 games takes 3 hours.

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Re: 2014 US National

Postby neilwenberg on Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:30 pm

Nationals 2014 is becoming more confusing as more people open their mouths about it. I am not a master class player but have been ACF membership for many, many years. Are we trying to get back to the days of two national checker organizations??? It appears that everyone has an axe to grind. Please sharpen your axes and let the slaughter begin!!
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Re: 2014 US National

Postby neilwenberg on Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:30 pm

Nationals 2014 is becoming more confusing as more people open their mouths about it. I am not a master class player but have been ACF membership for many, many years. Are we trying to get back to the days of two national checker organizations??? It appears that everyone has an axe to grind. Please sharpen your axes and let the slaughter begin!!
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Re: 2014 US National

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:26 am

It would be nice to see photos of hotel and especially - playing room.

Respectfully,

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Re: 2014 US National

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:19 pm

Today I received February ACF Bulletin with National announcement and ballot. We'll play in BLUEGRASSMAGIC GAMESHOP. Here are couple images I find on site:

Image ... Image

Here is shop view' from front door.'

Image

Facebook address: https://www.facebook.com/BluegrassMagic

I am looking at images and wondering - if anyone from the street can get directly into the playing room ?

Interesting deal though, will see.

When I looked at ballot text and options I almost dropped from my chair :D These ACF folks made me a day :D I never seem anything more unprofessional and incompetent. Even high school student with common sense would probably write it better with more clear options.

Before ACFB came to my house, I wanted to vote for Robin Round but unfortunately such options were no on ballot and I didn't have much choice.

I made my choice, circle everything and sent ballot to Dr. Beckwith.

It was truly fantastic argument that scoring per ballot cause difficulties to process rating. What is more important for us - the system to identify best players and proper ranking - or anything else ?!

And I also don't understand the problem with rating if event has only 3 possibilities:

0 - lose ballot
1 - drew ballot
2 - win ballot

Standard 0-1-2 situation similar to single GAYP game. Just consider ballot (not game) as a whole event and everything works fine.

There is only one way to prove pudding - eat it !

Respectfully,

Alex Moiseyev
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Re: 2014 US National

Postby Chexhero on Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:43 pm

Thank you Rich, and the rest of the ACF administration for giving us options on how we would like the format of our national tournament to be conducted. I personally did not find anything hard to follow and am clear on what options I will choose. Alex, with the 2 game round option, it gives us a good chance of being able to do round robin and throwing in Swiss if needed. So I don't know why you are complaining about this. I am sorry if it is not exactly the way you wanted it, but lets be fair, the ACF admin needs to cater to everybody's desires, not just yours. In general they responded with options to what players have been asking for.

To respond to your concern about the ratings, I have stated before that rating system works best with 2 game round format, scoring by game. Scoring by ballot and not taking individual games into consideration can cause difficulties. It is as simple as that and it was my idea to let members know this. Blame me :)

I also want to say that the playing room looks nice and it would actually be nice to have some people come in from the outside to watch our fantastic game of checkers. We just need a moderator to make sure they don't cause a distraction!
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Re: 2014 US National

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:57 pm

Chexhero wrote:I am sorry if it is not exactly the way you wanted it!
I wanted to see Round Robin and didn't find it. I find one very unclear uncertain option which allows anything. I can't take it because I don't know - what I am voting for by picking this option: 4 or 5 days, Swiss or Robin Round or hybrid

All I wanted - clear options with good choice based on common sense. In fact - no common sense, childish language.

BTW. I still didn't hear from you - what kind of difficulties you have with scoring round 0-1-2 ? Cross table will have only 0-1-2 values there, same as GAYP event. What a problem ?

Chexhero wrote:the ACF admin needs to cater to everybody's desires, not just yours.
The problem is - they don't listen anyone at all, only themselves, that's a major problem. We would never have this voting if I don't start asking ACF unwelcome questions. This voting is not ACF accomplishment, it's result of their fault. We should have this voting long time before without painful reminding.

American Checkers Federation don't respect their members and treat them miserably !

All I wanted from ACF - just ask people and listen people, not only themselves. I struggle for years to patronage ACF with very little success. I would be glad to be wrong, but we are going into wrong directions:

1) Dropping membership
2) Reduce number of events
3) Everything gets more childish and unprofessional.
4) Many good active ACF members left and/or became inactive.

Don't worry, Joe ! ACF doesn't listen me consistently and permanently. Maybe it's secretly written in ACF Constitution: "Don't listen Alex M"!" :D

None of my suggestions and recommendations were considered and accepted except mathematical concept and design of ACF 3-moves deck. I am proud to say that whatever we have today - it is not my fault I am not in charge of ACF fiasco and lack of leadership.

Chexhero wrote:In general they responded with options to what players have been asking for.
Maybe very general and very broad. I don't know whom they ask, but half of masters I asked wanted 6 days. This is not even an option on ballot. This is exactly what I call - poor management.

My personal choice for Master Division was 8 rounds with 4 games round and using ACF Tough Deck. Lets see what other people want.

Robin Round would work only if we have fix number of players every year. Otherwise it could be more worse if it's flexible.

BTW. I also like playing room view, a lot of space between players and tables. Tables are a bit tiny and it looks like standard board takes 90%-95% space between partners and not much room for shoulders and notebook. Chairs are cheap :D

Anyway, hopefully it will be fun. I played in 147 events since 1996, there were better conditions and there were worse. This one looks OK so far.

Good luck to organizers, lets make this National memorable for all of us !

Respectfully,

AM
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Re: 2014 US National

Postby Chexhero on Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:42 am

Alex, there are clearly differences in formats between the 3 options available, it is not all the same thing. I understand you wanted more "exact" options, but at this point we wanted to just get an idea of what preference most people had. For example, if the option with 2 game rounds is chosen, we can work from there and even have a final vote on an exact format to be used, which even people who chose the other options can vote upon. To me, lashing out the way you did at this point was not very professional for a former champion.

I agree we do not have a perfect leadership. However, does it really do a service to lash out in a public forum about it? If anything, it is just an embarrassment and will turn away potential new members. I actually know this as a fact, non ACF members do read this forum. When I have a problem with the administration and I feel something should be done, I email them about it in a respectful manner, which tends to be very productive. What your doing is not helping the problem, but making it worse. I hear your concerns and many of them are legitimate, but I don't feel lashing out about them in the forum, is very productive, at least not in the manner that you are.
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Re: 2014 US National

Postby Chexhero on Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:53 am

Regarding your question about the rating, ballot scoring would be a problem because a win is automatically worth 4 points, a loss 0 points. Therefore, I will not know if player with 4 points won 1 game and a draw or won both games. In other words, I won't know outcome of every individual game. The rating system is only designed to rate 2 game rounds, which are scored by game, not ballot. Ballot scoring in 4 game rounds work better, because in this case, we can treat each ballot as an individual game, which is what we did last 3 move national.
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Re: 2014 US National

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:53 am

Joe, I treat ACF the same way it treats me as pay member - high disrespect and ignorance. If they choose do not listen average people and do not act professionally - this is their choice. I am free with my choice.

All damage to ACF image came from their own actions. If they have any questions how to minimize damage - they can contact with me via mail or phonel.

And yes, new potential members of ACF should have a chance to knew more about organization they are going to join and pay money.

Regarding rating ... we score points per ballot and we score rating per ballot. Forget about 2nd games. Round result - 0-1-2. That's it.
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Re: 2014 US National

Postby Chexhero on Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:51 am

Alex, my point is that you are not helping fix the problem. You are making it worse. You are adding to the ACF's bad image with your childish behavior. It seems to me your intent is not to help make checkers better, but rather tear down the administration any way you can because you are angry they threw your friend John Acker out of leadership. Complaining like you are does not solve anything. Taking actions to help checkers grow does. I offered you some marketing opportunities in the past and you haven't supported any of them.
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Re: 2014 US National

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:12 pm

Chexhero wrote:. I offered you some marketing opportunities in the past and you haven't supported any of them.
What does it mean in your post "supported" ? You said "lets do this and do this", I said OK but it seems like now you want me to do this ? I didn't see any actions on your end, only declaration. You started business but didn't finish it - it's not my problem. I didn't reject any of your proposals but you just stopped talking when I asked about details.

And it's not me who damaged ACF image, they do it on their own. I am trying to help them and fix.

The way to fix it - listen members. L_I_S_T_E_N.

It looks like some sort of elite behavior inside of ACF and opinion of ordinary ACF members is completely ignored.

If they do such things with us - then we fight back.

Respectfully,

Alex Moiseyev
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Re: 2014 US National

Postby Chexhero on Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:18 pm

Alex, I am in the midst of trying to collect interest for the Longest day promotion with the Alzheimer's group of America. I need volunteers such as yourself in order to make it a success. Why did you not respond to this and express interest yet? Why have you chosen to complain about everything instead of choosing to promote the game? Or do you feel ACF should only promote to you? And I stopped asking you about possible event with Cracker Barrel after you said ACF must pay for your meal and travel. The event was not a promotion for you. And no, your ranting does not help fix the ACF image. I don't know how anyone can respect the way you have conducted yourself, it is a total embarrassment for a former world champion to behave this way and to be a bully. The ACF leaders are volunteers, they are not being paid for their service. I respect people who choose to give even an ounce of effort to keep our game alive. I criticize the bad, but I also applaud the good. When I do criticize however, I am mindful that the people I am criticizing are volunteers who have busy lives.
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Re: 2014 US National

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:50 pm

Chexhero wrote: And I stopped asking you about possible event with Cracker Barrel after you said ACF must pay for your meal and travel.
If you want someone to pay for something - this not promotion, this is donation ... directly on indirectly. I am OK to spend my time because I have it (for free), but I can't spend money taken them out of family ... even small money.

And if I am so bad guy, why you just didn't ask someone else ? We have good number of live grandmasters, masters, world champions. No, you just wanted world champion for this, no less. All after all - I don't have this title anymore and things are easy :D You can ask Jim Morrison, Alex Holmes or Richard, or yourself ... if they have time. My name is not worthy $30 today (gas + meal) :D
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Re: 2014 US National

Postby rich beckwith on Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:43 pm

I'm coming in a little late. Ballot Option #2 is for round-robin (default), but it is not a guarantee that format will apply. It's great if a division has 13-14 players (and usually the masters comes close to this), but what if division has 24 entrants or 8 entrants? The Major's/Minors divisions have bounced around attendance-wise here.
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