2014 US National

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Re: 2014 US National

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:38 pm

Michael Holmes wrote:You thoughts and opinion are always welcome. The tournament is scheduled for five days.
There are more people than me. Results of voting must be published. Only people who played at least once in 3 moves National Master Division can vote.

We will discuss more this serious issue during the year and at opening ceremony.

Switching to 7 rounds instead 8 - historical moment, 1st time in more than 60 years I believe. It can't be done "just like that" :roll: Period.
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Re: 2014 US National

Postby Chexhero on Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:12 pm

I actually missed that the number of rounds for masters would be shortened from 8 to 7. I agree there should be a vote for this change from current members who have participated in the 3 move Nationals in masters. While it would be nice to shorten the number of days to 5, I think 8 rounds would need 6 days. Otherwise, 8 rounds in 5 days may mean shortened time controls. I think I am most in favor of keeping the format the way it currently is for masters, though shortening it for minors and majors would be ok.
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Re: 2014 US National

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:15 pm

Though I disagree, I can accept 5 days and 7 rounds only in one case: if we have normal formal democratic process of voting/referendum and people perfectly and clearly understand - what they are voting for. Let me spell here this word:

D - E - M - O - C - R - A - T - I - C

8 rounds played in 20th century by Tinsley, and Ryan, and Long, and Oldbury and many, many other great people in the past. I don't want to make anything miserable. National Master Division doesn't need to be "attractive", it is a Honor to play here. Let me spell here this word

H - O - N - O - R

We don't have much $$$$$ involve in checkers, so ... leave us respect please. Let me spell here this word

R - E - S - P - E - C - T

Chexhero wrote:I actually missed that the number of rounds for masters would be shortened from 8 to 7.
You didn't miss anything, Joe. This shortness was never mentioned in conversation and this is what I called - "mislead".


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Re: 2014 US National

Postby Michael Holmes on Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:30 pm

moiseyev, this is second time you have assumed or insinuated that there has been wrong doing for this National. All comments are noted and suggested , rules to be allowed to vote suggested by you seem too rigid. Provide a list of those who want something different and why, and we will review.
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Re: 2014 US National

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:51 pm

Michael, this is not a first time also when you trying to assume that nothing wrong with this nal. However one thing is certainly doesn't look very good for me - breaking laws and traditions by ACF Executive Committee. We have plenty 2014 events ahead and I have enough time to collect people opinion.

And yes - I demand from you list of people who voted or their opinion was asked properly. This is not a secret and cannot be a secret.

So ... you have to prove that nothing is wrong with this National.

Respectfully,

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Re: 2014 US National

Postby Michael Holmes on Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:19 pm

moiseyev, I understand from your post that you actually don't have a list. I will post more information in a couple of weeks.
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Re: 2014 US National

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:25 pm

Michael Holmes wrote:I will post more information in a couple of weeks.
Deal, thanks ! In general - I like location and timing, Leon Creek will be very good referee - I am sure. Maybe experienced Don Brattin can help and assist him. The only thing I don't like - reducing number of rounds. Number of days - secondary.

I am wytnessing all these shortcuts for years - days, rounds, attendants etc. I hate reducing things without serious reason. National Master Division is not in grave conditions yet, lets try to do our best and keep it at least at level where we are today.

Why should I do work which ACF suppose to do - promote checkers, increase attendance, play more events with more players etc ??

Several state events already gone - I don't wish the same fate for National, this is our last resort.

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Re: 2014 US National

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:00 am

Michael, I would like to see from ACF list of players from Master Division who was questioned prior January 1st about changing 8 rounds to 7 and they supported this idea. Without this list some people may have feelings that ACF Executive Committee just mislead people and manipulated.

You said that people were asked about changing 8 rounds to 7 and I trust you. All I need - list of people.

You also can't refer to my opinion posted on this forum because you never asked me about 7 rounds. Your question was about 5-6 days which is not the same. This is very serious issue and must be taken very seriously.

If you asked people and ACF Executive Committee made decision based on their vote - it won't be a big problem to post here list.

This voting/referendum was never published in ACFB or other media. On this forum only 2 or 3 people said something. It was only Alabama State Tournament in this time window (I played in NC and haven't heard anything). This simply means that prior January 1st you wrote emails to people and/or spoke with them on phone. There are about 20 players in USA who can be considered as Master player. How many people ACF asked about changing 8 rounds to 7?

I also would like to see protocol document where ACF Executive Committee voted to change 8 rounds to 7 because this is kind of historical moment. I suspect we don't have this document and ACF Executive Committee only voted to approve Louisville bid with thinking much about importance of changes.

Respectfully,

Alex Moiseyev
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Re: 2014 US National

Postby Alex holmes on Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:50 pm

I know that im just a kid and you all are adults, and I also know that I cant just say stuff about this and how this was comment was bad, why are we doing this or stuff like that. I realize this isn't about the main idea but it does go In the idea. I also know I have little consideration at all, but has anybody else wonder why the Nationals has to be longer than the world qualifier? In my opinion the national is 3/4 important as the world qualifier is I mean think about it for just a minute if we play 8 rounds in five days in the WQT (which I think we are) and the best in the world have to get invited, wouldn't you all think that if anything, that the world qualifier should be longer than the nationals.
Now I know you all are intense about this with clock management and all of that but don't some of you all think you use way to much clock, and I know im obviously not the best with clock management but if would suggest anything it would be:

2 rounds every day until last day with one round for seven rounds and 4 days with 6 hours per round (clocks optional depends on what both players agree on.)

If you all want more rounds just add another day which would be five for 9 rounds


Suggestively,
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Re: 2014 US National

Postby Alex holmes on Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:55 pm

Now I Know we can't do these next few years and I know its a lot of money, but in about 5-10 years we can try and vote on four game rounds on world qualifiers just like the national but Swiss instead of winner takes all?
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Re: 2014 US National

Postby Chexhero on Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:22 am

I would be in favor of reducing the number of games played in 3 move nationals. I would have no problem having 2 game rounds, instead of 4. This would actually allow us to have more over all rounds against more people. It seems that normally 3 move nationals masters draws anywhere between 12 to 15 people. If we did 2 game rounds, we could probably fit in 12 rounds in 4 days, or we could do 14 rounds in 5 days. Time controls would also not have to change as I don't think many master players would be in favor of time controls decreasing. However, I'd rather a change in format to be subject to a vote. You also have to wonder if 4 game rounds are as necessary anymore, due to the format changing to ballot scoring in 2012. I think it would be more productive to just do 2 game rounds against a wider variety of people.
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Re: 2014 US National

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:38 pm

Robin Round USA National 3 moves Master Division with 13 or 15 rounds (14-16 participants) would be great deal. This idea has my support. 13-15 2-games rounds can be easily play in 5 days. I proposed this idea in the past to previous ACF administration but this idea didn't find good support.

It is not too late to run a vote (mail, or electronically, or both) among Masters this year prior National and ask people their opinion. In this case 5 days commitment for organizers can be met if people choose to select new format.

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Re: 2014 US National

Postby neilwenberg on Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:15 pm

I like Alex's idea for 13 to 15 2 game rounds for all classes for next nationals. More games not less is of interest to me
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Re: 2014 US National

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:02 pm

neilwenberg wrote:More games not less is of interest to me
My applauds sir, you've got a point ! :D And not only more games, but also - much more (almost double) opponents.

Richard Beckwith in general supported this idea but was afraid of some uncertainty with number of players in Master Division. This is important indeed, but only secondary thing which can be handle in normal course of paperwork.

If people decide to pick new format - it will be much more attractive and democratic process to identify the best player. Robin Round is always better system then Swiss and must be used whenever possible.

Number of games will be about the same - 32 with old system (8x4) and 30 (15x2) or 26 (13x2) with new system.
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Re: 2014 US National

Postby Chexhero on Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:55 pm

Another productive step would be to have at least 2 of the tournament days be on Saturday and Sunday. It seems that Nationals always begin on Monday, forcing people to take off a full week off of work. Many people just don't have the time. By this new format, we could say start it on a Friday, and end it early on the Tuesday after. Now people will only have to take 3 vacation days instead of 5.
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