Dublin qualifer games

[MostFamousDane]

I managed to get hold of the score sheets of the dublin qualifier so I have typed in the games and uploaded them to the danish draughts federation site (www.draughts.dk click games). Several of the games are incomplete so feel free to send me corrections or continuations.

On an unrelated note here is my proposal for next GA:

1. That the boards used in qualifer tournaments are numbered.
2. Anybody who has transcribed games of any qualifer hereby gets the lifelong right to bitchslap any member who originally voted for using unnumbered boards. The members who voted for using unnumbered boards shall for ever be forced to wear a t-shirt to all tournaments with the inscription: "I am a sadistic bastard and overall bad person".

[Ingo_Zachos]

...

[Alex_Moiseyev]

I am OK if my opponent use numbered board outside of my observation, 10-15 feets away - so I can't see him/her and this F(ine) board.

Alex

[Ingo_Zachos]

Great and heroic effort, Sune.

At last we got it!

You are absolutely right that especially those who claim that numbers irritate them made at least a few totally illegal moves in each of their games.
At least if we assume their own record would be accurate

I would not slap them, but it must be recommended to use numbered boards, as they seem to need it badly, including two very reknown World Champions.


One last request:
are the games of the women and junior event, and if I may dream, also the games of the Irish Open 2010, recorded?
I do not demand them to publish them at once, as I know it takes time to decipher,enter and check them all, but were these games recorded for the history books of our game?
They surely deserve to be preserved.


Greetinx from rainy Dortmund at night,

Ingo Zachos

[MostFamousDane]

Great and heroic effort, Sune.

At last we got it!

You are absolutely right that especially those who claim that numbers irritate them made at least a few totally illegal moves in each of their games.
At least if we assume their own record would be accurate

I would not slap them, but it must be recommended to use numbered boards, as they seem to need it badly, including two very reknown World Champions.

Well we could always give the two players the option to use the numbered board and if a player refuses - the refere is allowed to go through his scoresheet after the round and if a single illegal move is made the player receives 0 points for the round. Another option is to say that whoever is against using a numbered board automatically volunteer to transcribe all the games of that tournament. I could go on

One last request:
are the games of the women and junior event, and if I may dream, also the games of the Irish Open 2010, recorded?
I do not demand them to publish them at once, as I know it takes time to decipher,enter and check them all, but were these games recorded for the history books of our game?
They surely deserve to be preserved.

Yes I also have those scoresheets but I got very tired when I attempted to transcribe the games since they were in an even worse shape.

[Alex_Moiseyev]

People, who require numbered board should be recognise on the street:

They have to wear T-shirts with message: "Learning numbers every day !"

[Ingo_Zachos]

People, who require numbered board should be recognise on the street:

They have to wear T-shirts with message: "Learning numbers every day !"

That is a good idea!!!

And judging from your scoresheets in Beijing you are the most prominent player to wear that T-Shirt, as you require a numbered board badly.

Greetinx from sunny Dortmund,

Ingo Zachos

[Ingo_Zachos]

...

Yes I also have those scoresheets but I got very tired when I attempted to transcribe the games since they were in an even worse shape.

Great , Sune!

I know how hard it is to transcribe them, as I did it for the German Open and Beijing games, and all I can say is thak you, Sune.
As well as I want to say grazie to Ezio Valentini and Alessio Scaggiante (the Junior World Champion) for making it possible to have the games in San Remo 2011 with only a very short delay.

I hope we can do the same in Lille and Beijing 2012!

Greetinx from sunny Dortmund,

Ingo Zachos

[Mac Banks]

I am so appreciative of the work and dedication that Ingo, Sune, JR, Jim Loy and some others make that allow all the checker world the opportunity to see most of the important checker games in the world. I know it is hard to get the checker games on line when so many impossible moves are made by the players when making a copy of the games to be turned in. Mistakes are being made in the master division as well as the other divisions. I know most players don't like a numbered checker board but this is what it make take to get the games copied correctly. I had an awful time at the Nationals in Las Vegas trying to come up with the moves that were actually made in the game. Once again, thanks to all that make the games possible.

[Alex_Moiseyev]

I know most players don't like a numbered checker board but this is what it make take to get the games copied correctly.

Mac, thanks for your input.

What makes you think this way ? We know that on numbered boards people makes errors in recording, but why you think number of error will be significantly dropped on numbered boards ?

This is quite untested statement. And indeed - these numbers has alot of disturbing influence on quality of games. We are worry about quality of recording, but the main value is - quality of games themselves ... thats why we want these games be recorded and that why we heend them for history.

I am recording all my games since 1996, more than 2,000 today, and usually I make mistake only 3-4 times during standard state tournament, - 12-14 games, 250-300 moves. And all other master players have the same or close percentage. When pressure is growing (like in Beijing) - the percentage of errors is also growing, and numbered boards will not help us much to improve things.

Starting using numbered boards will beneft some players for expense of other. We have to think about ordinary master and grandmaster players, not only novice elite.

Think about.

Alex

[Mac Banks]

Hi Alex,

Thanks for your quick feedback. No, I personally don't like using numbered boards either. You may be the exception than the rule in getting the games recorded accurately. Some master players don't even start to record their games until entire 4 game match is over.
At the National tourney in Las Vegas, a lot of mistakes were made in the master division games. Some master players are great such as Rich Beckwith in recording the games accurately but some do not care if the games are recorded at all and put little effort in the recording process. I am not critical of the master players in recording the games but I think more attention should be given in this area. When a game is in progress, that is the best way to record the games and both players should record the game and hopefully, if a mistake is made by one of the players the correction can be made. Unfortunately , some master players do not record their games and leave it for the other player to record the games and if a mistake is made then it has to be figured out. Some times it is easy to figure out the move that was omitted but at other times it is virtually impossible. Alex, if recording the games were not a problem as you suggest, the subject wouldn't be addressed on this forum. I want to thank you for getting the games recorded accurately .

[MostFamousDane]

I know most players don't like a numbered checker board but this is what it make take to get the games copied correctly.

Mac, thanks for your input.

What makes you think this way ? We know that on numbered boards people makes errors in recording, but why you think number of error will be significantly dropped on numbered boards ?

Well I can answer that as I have transcribed 3 WCDF qualifer tournaments where unnumbered boards are used and 7 Danish Open tournaments where numbered boards were used - the difference in ease of transcribing is MASSIVE eventhough the average rating of players in the Danish Open is alot less than in the qualifier tournament.

This is quite untested statement. And indeed - these numbers has alot of disturbing influence on quality of games.

As noted above it is not untested at all it has been thoroughly tested. What has not been tested is that using a numbered board has an influence on the quality of the games played. We are using some boards that I bought from the ACF and the numbers are so discrete it is difficult to image them having any influence on the game quality. In fact the fold in the board is much more noticable than the numbers. Maybe you have just seen another board where the numbers were really disturbing ?

We are worry about quality of recording, but the main value is - quality of games themselves ... thats why we want these games be recorded and that why we heend them for history.

I am recording all my games since 1996, more than 2,000 today, and usually I make mistake only 3-4 times during standard state tournament, - 12-14 games, 250-300 moves. And all other master players have the same or close percentage. When pressure is growing (like in Beijing) - the percentage of errors is also growing, and numbered boards will not help us much to improve things.

Well the actual error percentage is that you have trouble finding a single scoresheet with no errors where unnumbered boards are used!

Starting using numbered boards will beneft some players for expense of other. We have to think about ordinary master and grandmaster players, not only novice elite.

Think about.

Alex

Well I think that masters and grandmasters should be better at visualizing than the novice elite and should have no problems using a numbered board.

The problem here is that it is not you that is harmed by the usage of the unnumbered boards since you have not tried transcribing the games of a qualifier. An obvious solution to this is that you volunteer to transcribe the games of the next qualifer! This will achieve two things:

1. You will get a more accuate picture of how big the problem is.
2. Having suffered the same fate as the rest of us may increase your empathy .

Sune

[Mac Banks]

Hi Sune,

You hit the nail on the head with your statements about how big the probem is. I think if Alex were responsible for the games as you suggest he would then know how big the problem is and how much time is required to put out the games for the rest of the players. Thanks for you input Sune as you got it right.

[Alex_Moiseyev]

Hi, Sune and Mac !

Thanks for your input, assistance and willingness to improve things.

I am recording games all my life, more than 46 years. Sometimes I processed the entire events as well. I can tell you few things:

1) If players record irresponsibly, it doesn't help us at all and has nothing to do with numbered boards.

2) If players record games respectfully and take a full responsibility, recording all information (event title, partners, result, date, time, moves, signatures) without gaps and holes in recording and recover the full text after the end of game and/or passing time control ...

even one - few mistakes can be recovered easy and it takes 3-5 minutes for one game to be processed.

3) I don't see any prolems to give 0 (zero, zero, zero !!!) points to everyone who doesn't turn games to referee by official end of round. Its so easy like "1-2-3" ... ZERO points and thats it.

Do it once, and to the end of the world (prhaps December 21, 2012 according Maya calendar) players will record accuartely all games.

4) All high calibre official events, starting from National and higher, shall have an officially assigned "GAME PROCESSOR".

5) I still haven't heard from WCDF - who will make games in Lille available online by the end of day/round.

Alex

[JohnAcker]

I know I've made several mistakes on my own scoresheets, even with numbered boards (or the mini-boards on the scoresheets that Alan supplies), and so far the only method I've found to improve accuracy is entering my own games on my laptop right after the round is finished. Personally, I find it difficult to record moves accurately when the position gets difficult, or when I am upset because I made a stupid move.

Regardless, though, I would fully support requiring ALL players to record and turn in their games for processing. In fact, for the 2012 ACF Nationals I may just do publicity/broadcasting, and not play, so I could help with game processing as needed.