The show match

General Discussion about the game of Checkers.

Re: The show match

Postby Krzysztof Grzelak on Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:51 am

Parties match Alexa Moiseyeva with program GUI Checkers 1.11 by Jon Kreuzer.

[Event "Alex vs machine"]
[Place "www.playok.com"]
[Date "29.10.2016"]
[Red "Alex Moiseyev"]
[White "program"Gui Checkers 1.11"]
[Opening "9-14 22-18 5-9"]
[TimeControl "900+15"]
[Result "1-1"]

1.25-22 11-16 2.18-15 10x19 3.24x15 7-10 4.27-24 10x19 5.24x15 2-7 6.32-27 7-10 7.27-24 10x19 8.24x15 16-19 9.23x16 12x19 10.26-23 19x26 11.30x23 8-11 12.15x8 4x11 13.22-18 6-10 14.29-25 10-15 15.25-22 15-19 16.23x7 3x10 17.18-15 10x19 18.22-17 14-18 19.17-14 9-13 20.31-26 18-23 21.28-24 23x30 22.24x15 1-1

[Event "Alex vs machine"]
[Place "www.playok.com"]
[Date "29.10.2016"]
[Red "program"Gui Checkers 1.11"]
[White "Alex Moiseyev"]
[Opening "9-14 22-18 5-9"]
[TimeControl "900+15"]
[Result "1-1"]

1.25-22 1-5 2.29-25 11-15 3.18x11 8x15 4.24-20 7-11 5.22-17 4-8 6.25-22 3-7 7.23-19 15x24 8.28x19 14-18 9.22x15 11x18 10.17-13 9-14 11.32-28 14-17 12.21x14 10x17 13.26-22 18x25 14.30x14 6-9 15.13x6 2x18 16.19-16 12x19 17.27-23 18x27 18.31x15 5-9 19.20-16 1-1

[Event "Alex vs machine"]
[Place "www.playok.com"]
[Date "29.10.2016"]
[Red "Alex Moiseyev"]
[White "program"Gui Checkers 1.11"]
[Opening "9-14 24-20 10-15"]
[TimeControl "900+15"]
[Result "1-1"]

1.28-24 7-10 2.22-18 15x22 3.25x9 5x14 4.29-25 11-15 5.23-19 6-9 6.27-23 9-13 7.25-22 8-11 8.31-27 3-7 9.23-18 14x23 10.27x18 12-16 11.19x12 13-17 12.21x14 10x17 13.22x13 15x31 14.12-8 11-16 15.20x11 7x16 16.8-3 1-6 17.24-20 16-19 18.20-16 31-26 19.30x23 19x26 20.32-28 26-31 21.28-24 31-27 22.24-20 27-23 23.16-11 23-18 24.11-7 2x11 25.3-7 11-15 26.7-10 15-19 27.10x1 18-14 1-1

[Event "Alex vs machine"]
[Place "www.playok.com"]
[Date "29.10.2016"]
[Red "program"Gui Checkers 1.11"]
[White "Alex Moiseyev"]
[Opening "9-14 24-20 10-15"]
[TimeControl "900+15"]
[Result "1-1"]

1.22-17 15-19 2.17x10 6x15 3.23x16 12x19 4.25-22 5-9 5.27-24 9-14 6.32-27 1-5 7.22-17 7-10 8.29-25 3-7 9.17-13 2-6 10.25-22 14-18 11.22-17 18-23 12.27x18 15x22 13.24x15 10x19 14.17-14 22-25 15.13-9 6x13 16.21-17 13x22 17.26x17 25-29 18.17-13 19-23 19.13-9 7-10 20.14x7 5x14 21.7-3 8-12 22.3-8 11-15 23.8-11 14-18 24.11-7 18-22 25.7-10 15-18 26.10-15 23-27 27.31x24 18-23 28.24-19 22-26 29.20-16 26-31 30.16-11 23-27 31.11-7 4-8 32.7-3 27-32 33.15-18 8-11 34.19-15 11-16 35.3-8 16-19 36.30-25 29x22 37.18x25 19-23 38.28-24 23-26 39.24-20 26-30 40.25-21 30-26 1-1
Krzysztof Grzelak
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 3:25 am
Location: Poland

Re: The show match

Postby Krzysztof Grzelak on Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:46 am

Parties match Alexa Moiseyeva with program Cake 1.85 by Martin Fierz.

[Event "Alex vs machine"]
[Place "www.playok.com"]
[Date "29.10.2016"]
[Red "Alex Moiseyev"]
[White "program"Cake 1.85"]
[Opening "9-13 24-20 10-14"]
[TimeControl "900+15"]
[Result "1-1"]

1.22-18 5-9 2.27-24 6-10 3.25-22 10-15 4.22-17 13x22 5.26x10 7x14 6.30-26 15x22 7.26x10 2-7 8.10-6 1x10 9.29-25 10-15 10.23-19 9-13 11.19x10 7x14 12.24-19 14-18 13.20-16 11x20 14.28-24 20x27 15.32x14 8-11 16.14-9 3-8 17.31-27 11-16 18.27-23 16-20 19.9-6 20-24 20.6-2 24-27 21.2-6 27-31 22.25-22 31-27 23.22-18 8-11 24.19-15 11-16 25.6-10 16-20 26.15-11 20-24 27.10-15 24-28 28.11-7 28-32 29.7-3 32-28 30.3-7 28-24 31.7-11 27-31 32.18-14 31-26 33.23-18 26-23 34.15-10 13-17 35.18-15 17-22 36.14-9 22-26 37.10-14 26-30 38.21-17 24-20 39.15-10 12-16 40.9-6 16-19 41.6-1 19-24 42.17-13 24-27 43.13-9 27-31 1-1

[Event "Alex vs machine"]
[Place "www.playok.com"]
[Date "29.10.2016"]
[Red "program"Cake 1.85"]
[White "Alex Moiseyev"]
[Opening "9-13 24-20 10-14"]
[TimeControl "900+15"]
[Result "1-1"]

1.22-18 7-10 2.18x9 5x14 3.28-24 11-15 4.23-18 14x23 5.27x11 8x15 6.21-17 13x22 7.25x11 3-8 8.11-7 2x11 9.26-23 11-15 10.30-26 8-11 11.32-28 4-8 12.24-19 15x24 13.28x19 10-15 14.19x10 6x15 15.26-22 1-5 16.22-17 12-16 17.17-13 8-12 18.29-25 15-19 19.23-18 19-24 20.25-21 16-19 21.21-17 19-23 22.17-14 23-27 23.14-10 27-32 24.10-7 32-27 25.7-3 27-23 26.18-14 11-15 27.3-7 15-18 28.7-10 23-19 29.13-9 18-22 30.9-6 22-25 31.6-2 25-30 32.20-16 19-23 33.16-11 23-18 34.10-6 18x9 1-1

[Event "Alex vs machine"]
[Place "www.playok.com"]
[Date "29.10.2016"]
[Red "Alex Moiseyev"]
[White "program"Cake 1.85"]
[Opening "10-14 22-17 9-13"]
[TimeControl "900+15"]
[Result "2-0"]

1.17x10 6x15 2.25-22 15-19 3.24x15 11x25 4.29x22 12-16 5.28-24 8-12 6.24-20 1-6 7.20x11 7x16 8.23-18 4-8 9.18-14 6-10 10.14x7 3x10 11.22-18 8-11 12.18-14 10x17 13.21x14 13-17 14.27-24 16-20 15.31-27 2-6 16.24-19 6-9 2-0

[Event "Alex vs machine"]
[Place "www.playok.com"]
[Date "29.10.2016"]
[Red "program"Cake 1.85"]
[White "Alex Moiseyev"]
[Opening "10-14 22-17 9-13"]
[TimeControl "900+15"]
[Result "1-1"]

1.17x10 6x15 2.25-22 15-19 3.24x15 11x25 4.29x22 8-11 5.22-18 7-10 6.28-24 1-6 7.24-19 11-16 8.26-22 4-8 9.18-15 16-20 10.22-18 12-16 11.19x12 10x26 12.30x23 8-11 13.31-26 11-16 14.18-15 2-7 15.15-11 7-10 16.11-8 10-15 17.21-17 13x31 18.32-28 31x24 19.28x1 1-1
Krzysztof Grzelak
 
Posts: 80
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Re: The show match

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:31 pm

Today I played 4 draws with Kingsrow and historic match "Alex vs Machine" ended with score: 26 draws and 2 wins for Machine. Many thanks to Ryan Pronk who recorded last 4 match games with Kingsrow.

[Event "Alex vs Machine"]
[Site "kurnik"]
[Date "2016.10.30"]
[Round "1"]
[Black "rusms1"]
[White "Kingsrow"]
[Result "1-1"]
[Time "16:01:51"]
[TimeControl "900+15"]
[GameType "21,B,8,8,N1,0"]
[BlackElo "1479"]
[WhiteElo "1200"]
 
1. 11-15 22-17 2. 15-19 23x16 3. 12x19 24x15 4. 10x19 27-24 5. 7-10 24x15 6. 10x19 25-22 7. 8-11 22-18 8. 9-14 17x10 9. 6x15x22 26x17 10. 5-9 29-25 11. 11-15 31-27 12. 4-8 27-23 13. 19x26 30x23 14. 8-12 23-19 15. 15x24 28x19 16. 2-6 17-13 17. 9-14 25-22 18. 3-8 32-27 19. 8-11 27-23 20. 11-15 19x10 21. 6x15 13-9 22. 15-19 23x16 Draw

[Event "Alex vs Machine"]
[Site "kurnik"]
[Date "2016.10.30"]
[Round "1"]
[Black "Kingsrow"]
[White "rusms1"]
[Result "1-1"]
[Time "16:01:51"]
[TimeControl "900+15"]
[GameType "21,B,8,8,N1,0"]
[BlackElo "1200"]
[WhiteElo "1479"]
 
1. 11-15 22-17 2. 15-19 24x15 3. 10x19 23x16 4. 12x19 25-22 5. 8-11 27-23 6. 4-8 23x16 7. 11x20 22-18 8. 8-11 32-27 9. 9-14 18x9 10. 6x13x22 26x17 11. 11-15 29-25 12. 5-9 25-22 13. 7-10 30-26 14. 3-8 17-13 15. 2-6 26-23 16. 9-14 23-19 17. 15x24 28x19 18. 10-15 19x10 19. 6x15 27-23 20. 1-6 22-17 21. 6-10 13-9 22. 8-12 9-6 23. 15-19 23x16 24. 12x19 6-2 25. 14-18 17-14 Draw

[Event "Alex vs Machine"]
[Site "kurnik"]
[Date "2016.10.30"]
[Round "3"]
[Black "rusms1"]
[White "Kingsrow"]
[Result "1-1"]
[Time "16:41:30"]
[TimeControl "900+15"]
[GameType "21,B,8,8,N1,0"]
[BlackElo "1479"]
[WhiteElo "1200"]
 
1. 12-16 22-17 2. 16-19 24x15 3. 11x18 23x14 4. 9x18 17-14 5. 10x17 21x14 6. 8-11 28-24 7. 4-8 32-28 8. 11-16 26-22 9. 6-9 22x15 10. 9x18 24-20 11. 16-19 31-26 12. 7-11 26-23 13. 19x26 30x23x14 14. 11x18 25-22 15. 18x25 29x22 16. 1-6 27-23 17. 8-11 28-24 18. 6-10 14x7 19. 3x10 22-17 20. 11-15 23-19 21. 5-9 20-16 22. 15-18 17-13 23. 18-22 Draw

[Event "Alex vs Machine"]
[Site "kurnik"]
[Date "2016.10.30"]
[Round "4"]
[Black "Kingsrow"]
[White "rusms1"]
[Result "1-1"]
[Time "16:41:30"]
[TimeControl "900+15"]
[GameType "21,B,8,8,N1,0"]
[BlackElo "1200"]
[WhiteElo "1479"]
 
1. 12-16 {*} 22-17 {*} 2. 16-19 {*} 24x15 3. 11x18 23x14 4. 9x18 26-23 5. 6-9 23x14 6. 9x18 30-26 7. 1-6 26-23 8. 8-11 23x14 9. 6-9 31-26 10. 9x18 26-23 11. 2-6 23x14 12. 6-9 28-24 13. 9x18 17-14 14. 10x17 21x14 15. 7-10 14x7 16. 3x10 24-19
17. 11-15 19-16 18. 10-14 16-11 19. 14-17 25-21 20. 17-22 11-7 21. 22-26 7-3 22. 26-30 21-17 23. 30-26 17-14 24. 18-22 14-10 25. 15-19 27-23 26. 19-24 23-19 27. 24-28 10-6 28. 26-23 19-16 29. 5-9 6-2 30. 9-13 2-6 31. 22-26 29-25
32. 26-30 25-21 33. 30-26 16-11 34. 23-18 6-9 35. 18-23 11-7 36. 23-27 32x23 37. 26x19 7-2 38. 19-23 2-7 39. 23-26 7-11 40. 28-32 3-7 41. 32-27 7-10 Draw

In the last game If I play with human, I would never agree with draw without trying something for another 2-3 hours! :D

Many thanks to Ryan Pronk for moral support most part of match and to Christopher for organizing such an outstanding, attractive event along with "testing programs tournament". Who will be next in line to play against programs - Miki, Sergio ... any other kamikaze ? :D

I accomplished half of one my goals - had once program in loss.

Best Regards,

AM
I am playing checkers, not chess.
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Re: The show match

Postby Krzysztof Grzelak on Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:54 pm

A big thank you for a match for Alexandera Moiseyeva. Thanks also for the Ryan Pronk, Edward Trace, Edgar Gilbert, and all developers in the program participated in the match.

Krzysztof Grzelak.
Last edited by Krzysztof Grzelak on Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The show match

Postby Krzysztof Grzelak on Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:56 pm

Alex write who is Miki, Sergio.
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Re: The show match

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:12 pm

Krzysztof Grzelak wrote:Alex write who is Miki, Sergio.
Miki - reigning 3-moves and GAYP World Champion from Italy Michele Borghetti.

Sergio - Sergio Scarpetta from italy, GAYP ex World Champion and official WCDF Challenger for upcoming 3-moves World Title match in 2017. Sergio was watching few of our games during match and Miki came once.

Both believed to be the best players today
I am playing checkers, not chess.
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Re: The show match

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:21 pm

Official match results.

Sage 9.0 - Adrian Millett, Day1 (Saturday), October 22, Games 1-4, 4 draws

Aurora Borealis Professional - Alexander Svirin, Day1 (Saturday), October 22, Games 5-8, 4 draws

Nexus - Murray Cash, Day2 (Sunday), October 23, Games 9-12, 3 draws, NEXUS 1 win

World Championship Checkers Platinum III - Gil Dodgen & Edward Trice, Day2 (Sunday), Games 13-16, 4 draws

Gui Checkers - Jon Kruezer, Day3 (Saturday), October 29, Games 17-20, 4 draws

Cake - Martin Fierz, Day3 (Saturday), October 29, Games 21-24, 3 draws, Cake 1 win

Kingsrow - Edgar Gilbert, Day4 (Sunday), October 30, Games 25-28, 4 draws
I am playing checkers, not chess.
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Re: The show match

Postby Krzysztof Grzelak on Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:26 pm

Thank you for the information Alex.
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Re: The show match

Postby Chexhero on Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:23 pm

Congratulations to Alex on a very tough well fought match! Next up, 11-man program challenge!! Piece of "cake." :D
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Re: The show match

Postby chipschap on Sun Oct 30, 2016 9:24 pm

The larger question: what do these results mean? I think the loss to Nexus was almost accidental (though only Alex can say for sure), and in any case it was in one of the tough ballots. I haven't looked very hard at Cake's win.

Do the results prove that computers are vastly superior? Certainly not. But in a drawish game such as checkers, there would have to be many more games in order to draw any sort of definite, defensible conclusion. Do the results show that the computer has an edge? Perhaps. But it's really hard to say.

What is clear, though, is that a top human player such as Alex can hold his own. I really don't think a lot of players could manage 7 draws in 8 games against the likes of Cake and KingsRow.

And it's worth saying once more: this was an exhibition of courage and sportsmanship of the highest level.
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Re: The show match

Postby Ed Trice on Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:33 am

A few comments I have:

First, congratulations to Alex. Given the speed of checkers programs today, combined with their opening books and endgame databases, they are almost playing with a "draw in hand." The opening books navigate almost every pitfall at the start, and once out of book, they can see a safe path to the end of the game. It is almost impossible to score a win for a human player.

Secondly, I am not the author of GUI Checkers, Jon Kruezer is. I only ported it to a native 64-bit app for higher performance, and I added my Perfect Play endgame databases to it. Ed Gilbert performed many additional modifications to make the program play Fischer Clock time controls through Checkerboard. He also rebuilt the opening book.

I see my name attached to GUI Checkers, and I want to make sure I am not given too much credit for it.
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Re: The show match

Postby Krzysztof Grzelak on Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:21 am

Thank you for the information Ed. This is what I could have corrected.
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Re: The show match

Postby Alex_Moiseyev on Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:51 am

Ed Trice wrote:Secondly, I am not the author of GUI Checkers, Jon Kruezer is.
Thanks Ed! I corrected my post.

Regarding "almost impossible to score a win for a human player " ... I had NEXUS in loss but missed a win. The program played strange, losing 16-20?? In Octopus but I was unable to take full advantage on this and let program get out.

So, my resolution after this match - I can do it better next time!
I am playing checkers, not chess.
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Re: The show match

Postby Krzysztof Grzelak on Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:20 am

Alex cool wrote on another forum where we played in Russian. In the city I was born and live :lol: :lol: :lol: :D :D .
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Re: The show match

Postby Ed Trice on Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:18 pm

Alex_Moiseyev wrote:So, my resolution after this match - I can do it better next time!


One of the things I am working on is very large perfect play databases (10 pieces). These databases require 2 bytes for every position, and there are over 8 trillion positions. It will take about 20 terabytes to store everything. But, one amazing thing, once completed, a program that searches and uses these positions with perfect play, will ALWAYS take the shortest path to a win. And, if it ever "walks into" a loss, it will always postpone the loss for as long as possible.

However, the program will need about 256 Gigabytes of RAM to run. This makes it impossible to "distribute" the program. What I plan to do is write an online interface where a user can make a move, then this move will be transmitted to my program on my supercomputer. When the program makes its move, it will make it back to the online interface.

What I think would be cool: Once completed, have a "cooperative match" where several top human players can plan their moves, talk out loud, come up with a consensus, then make their move based on what the group thinks is best. Then, make the move on the online interface, and have the monstrous computer come up with its reply. This way, we can have a very different kind of match: Best of humankind vs. the machine.

Maybe I could make it so that many people can log on and "watch" (their comments would be hidden from the players themselves). If anyone is a skilled online interface programmer, feel free to chat with me if something like this interests you.
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