Really Old!

General Discussion about the game of Checkers.

Really Old!

Postby Richard Pask on Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:57 pm

Game 14 of WCC - Ryan's loss to Hellman - is made doubly famous by virtue of the fact that Sam Cohen had previously defeated Graham Davies with precisely the same attack in 1935. (Ryan's comments on his resignation given in CCS on Page 61 are quite surreal by the way!)

Make that triply famous, as in 1933 Cohen also beat J. Thorpe with precisely the same attack! - published on Page 29 of ... Ryan's June 1933 New Checkergram!

Amazing!
Richard Pask
 
Posts: 130
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:15 pm

Re: Really Old!

Postby tgf on Sun Apr 13, 2014 2:03 pm

The communication on this forum is strange, once in a while someone posts something and it just sits there unresponded, which probably discourages posters from posting again.
Of course it is hard to make sense of the below post, with all the references one can not validate, kind of "you need to have all those materials to understand it" elitism.
Richard Pask wrote:Game 14 of WCC [Show it] - Ryan's loss to Hellman - is made doubly famous by virtue of the fact that Sam Cohen had previously defeated Graham Davies [Show it] with precisely the same attack in 1935. (Ryan's comments on his resignation given in CCS on Page 61 [Show it] are quite surreal by the way!)

Make that triply famous, as in 1933 Cohen also beat J. Thorpe with precisely the same attack! - published on Page 29 of ... Ryan's June 1933 New Checkergram! [Show it]

Amazing!
tgf
 
Posts: 350
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:57 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Really Old!

Postby Richard Pask on Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:14 am

WCC refers to World Championship Checkers

CCS refers to Championship Checkers Simplified

For the game itself, see Basic Checkers 10-14 24-20 6-10 Note J

Given the effort I have put in - with enormous thanks to Bob Newell - to making my books available to all, effectively for free, including some for absolute beginners, I am shocked to find myself described as elitist! I truly despair.
Richard Pask
 
Posts: 130
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:15 pm

Re: Really Old!

Postby tgf on Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:14 am

Hi Richard,

They say a picture is worth a thousands words. Your post should have started with a diagram at the moment of the attack and hopefully a few moves so that those without the books could follow.
I showed four places where such visual aid (or links) could have been placed, instead I found out that CCS is an abbreviation for the Championship Checkers Simplified
book and not the name of the company I used to work for (Custom Control Sensors), but no closer to learn which tactical idea you invited us to admire.
tgf
 
Posts: 350
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:57 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Really Old!

Postby williamdocherty on Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:37 pm

Hi to all

With respect to both concerned, and the checker world truly recognizes the effort put in by you guys, I must insist on the following...in any area of our lives, digging and finding is much more rewarding than receiving without effort...

Thanks again for your contributions to our game.

William
williamdocherty
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:54 pm

Re: Really Old!

Postby Richard Pask on Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:34 pm

Dear William,

Thank you for your kind words.

Hi TGF. Having read your follow-up post I can now see where we have our wires completely crossed. The point of my original post was not to bring out a particular tactical point or device. It was/is as follows:

What was remarkable about the game Ryan lost to Hellman in their 1949 WCM was that it had been published previously, move-for-move. To be specific, Sam Cohen had defeated Graham Davies; the game appearing in the final issue of Derek Oldbury's A Game Of Draughts. What was astonishing, to me, was to discover that Cohen had previously defeated another player, move-for-move, with the same coup and that this too had been published. In fact, it had been published in Ryan's own magazine! [This is not, of course, in any way intended as a slight on Willie Ryan: a great play and author who I very much admire.]

By definition, all of the sources: World Championship Checkers, Championship Checkers Simplified, A Game Of Draughts, The New Checkergram and Basic Checkers contain precisely the same play, but in this instance the play is not the thing - although clearly the coup itself is most deceptive - it is the fact of pre-publication. Although, by necessity, I cited references in my original post, the point I am making does not require the reader to possess any of these references. Hopefully this has clarified things; it will be my last contribution regarding this particular item.
Richard Pask
 
Posts: 130
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:15 pm

Re: Really Old!

Postby tgf on Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:42 pm

I do not have any of the named books or WCC (the DOS version had not been used in good 20 years), but I have Hellman-Ryan 1949 match games, and Ryan lost game 14 there.
It probably would not hurt to bring the match here for a review, http://checkersusa.com/books/html_games ... n-Ryan.htm
tgf
 
Posts: 350
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:57 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Really Old!

Postby tgf on Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:56 pm

It was a surprise to learn my comment was taken as an accusation, I have nothing but admiration for Mr. Pask, who has done so much for the game.
Perhaps it was the direct manner I use to identify problems, Richard already explained he was pursuing a different thought - people do not remember their own writings,
He gave references - but I could not validate them not having those books.
One of the library's purposes was reference and validation, where one could say "book X, page Y, Position Z", etc., with everyone's access to exactly the same source.
tgf
 
Posts: 350
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:57 pm
Location: Los Angeles


Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron
class=